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I was appalled by the reaction of the AF Chief over the vote manipulation by the serviceman in the Malaysian Armed Forces (MAF). The Armed Forces chief had described those claiming that its rank-and-file had been involved in electoral fraud as an act of betrayal. To me, this is the face of a man who has shown nothing but disloyalty to King and the country.
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Are the allegations that surfaced lately true? I am not from the rank and file. As an officer who formerly served in the AF, I say it clearly that it is true. My own ballot paper was marked by a corporal in Mindef during the 1999 GE. If my words are not good enough, please ask the honorable Brig-general at mind no evil blog. To me anyone that manipulates the voting system in this country is treacherous. The one who ordered the lower rank personnel are a bigger traitor. A general who comes on TV and says it did not happen is clearly nothing more than a political pawn.
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I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he never had opportunity to be involved in the vote rigging. Therefore I can say that he made a statement based on his own experience. However, I expect a serving General to come to the fore and says that he is not sure about it in the past (because he was at a lower rank back then and was not aware of the scam) but while he is holding the fort he will ensure that it will not happen. That is my expectation from this man and not calling those who had declared what they did as traitors.
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To me these ex serviceman are heroes. They said what they did in the past. I understand the predicament of being an “other rank”. My father was one and so were his father and grandfather. When given orders whether it is right or wrong they do not question them because they are trained as such. Refusal to follow orders will be dealt with swiftly. Only in that manner discipline and esprit de corps are maintained. If it is not done in that manner, all hell will break lose. For that I understand what they did and why they did it.
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These whistle blowers are defending the honor of the country. A vote is the most important and basic right of any citizen and anyone who manipulates other people’s right to vote are the real traitor. I am saddened that our AF Chief has decided to play politics. It would have been better for them to come out with a strong statement that they will ensure that no such thing will happen while they are the chiefs instead of golfing on the course and defended a weak institution like the EC and morally corrupt political party.
Loyalty to the King and Country
August 18, 2011 by Dr R@28
138 Responses
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The postal system started with a noble intention for soldiers in forward locations to cast their votes as loyal citizens. It is unfortunate that the system was hijacked by dirty politics and brought into disrepute. Without positive changes to the process it will continue to be a flawed one and subject to abused. This does not auger well in helping Malaysia to move forward.
I don’t foresee any political will to right the postal vote system in the near future as it suits the interest of the ruling party. Likewise for a million Malaysian overseas, it will deem unwise for BN to allow them to vote for the obvious reason that they will vote otherwise as they r not dependent on BN for their living.
Dr R, must have seen u at IAM during Air Force days. 1977-1994.
So you must have been one of those pilots that I did a rectal examination. …just like Anwar LOL
Lets grab a kopi if you are in KL. Do email me at drrafick@gmail.com
The word: “officer and gentlemen” – a thing of the distant past
After 54 years of merdeka….. we still have not grown up
The Military lost its balls 30years ago…thanks to you know WHO
GENERALS-
They became poli-tikus…licking sugar from carrot sticks…
They became BIG TIME business man..
Selling wares & trading merchandise….
They learnt to smoke Cuban Cigars…
They made money on the course…
Not KK, SD or AATC..course mind you…
Far from Staff College or Defence College…
It is called the 18th Hole….
They became filthy RICH…..
Even TIger Woods is put to shame…
That was the END game…
THE FEW Good Ones never lasted….
As usual, the good always DIE young……
BUT NEVER MIND…
The final whistle when blown will show the truth….
As always the truth shall prevail….
GOD is never bias, selective, unjust and unequal in its dealings….
Oh God have mercy on them all…..
Think you’re making too many unjustifiable sweeping statement. It’s not right to paint our army like that.
Ellese – just to say sorry to you – seen all of it…
It is a sad state of affair…
Everything that happens in this world is not by “JUST COINCIDENCE!”
IT HAS ITS PURPOSE
WE SHALL ALL SEE EVENTUALLY
JUST BE PATIENT
WE ARE ALMOST THERE
SABAR….
Thanks to all these ex-servicemen who tell us what has been happening all this while. Loyalty to King & Country! Not to a political party!
Sorry to sidetrack the topic.
I read the following latest news from Bernama.
Over 2 million foreigners registered under 6P programme: Hishammuddin
A total of 2,040,709 foreign workers and illegal immigrants have been registered under the 6P programme as at 8am Thursday, Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein said.
He said of the total, 936,732 were legal workers while 1,103,977 were illegal immigrants.
We have over 1M illegal immigrants. The true figures maybe a lot more.
That maybe one of the real factors that our lower income group salary are still remain low. No doubt with millions of immigrants, it has created more social problems and crimes. In time to come Malaysia is going to face more socia disorder and problems! This is a very serious problems!!
Is our government going to grant them citizenship? Once the government legalised them and grant them citizenship, more legal and illegal will continue to flood in! Grant them citizenship again?
Our government fails to solve the illegal immigrant issues for years. Or they are either incompetent or deliberate failure!
MC, since the formation of Tanah Melayu/ Malaya and Malaysia, we have always been open to granting citizenship to immigrants (legal or otherwise). Then it was Chinese and Indian ancestry, today it may be Indonesian, Bangladeshi or Burma.
I see no problem in granting such citizenship especially if such individual can contribute to the economy of our nation.
If the individual causes criminal problem – just deport. What’s the probllem?
Illegal immigration is simply because of economics. For these millions who brave the oceans to come here, the reality is that our country provide better opportunity as compared to their home country. It happens in the US, UK, France etc. No matter how good a system they may have, a determined migrant will still be able to come in most of the time using the social visit pass and after entering dissapearing in the country.
Observer,
Rebut to your comment in Paragraph No 1 above :
Tanah Melayu / Malaya did not just grant citizenship to the immigrants from China and India for nothing. These immigrants were the ones who toilled in the tin mines and rubber estates to build the economy which if left to local labours to develop would have gone to nought, despite the rich resources this beautiful land had then. These immigrants also helped in the process of our nation building. So it was win-win situation.
The merits of these factors were taken into account by the Reid Commission in the early stages of Independence ground works / negotiation. So these immigrants were granted “Kerakyatan”. Later on, Under the Jus Soli system, anyone born to these immigrants in the Federation is automatically a Citizen.
By your arguement, how would Indonesians, Bangladeshis or Burmese qualify for instant Citizenship as the case is now ? What would their contributions be, in term of nation building ?
The exercise of legalizing illegals being conducted now is in stark contrast of what it was in pre-Merdeka days (then, they were immigrants not illegals). Now it is more like a Peninsular Malaysia version of Projek IC Negara in Sabah, back in the 80′s.
The govt is surprised that there are more illegal foreign workers than legal ones. Were any one of you surprised? Wonder is the Immigration, PDRM, Home Ministry and MACC doing all these years? Busy deleting the entry records of 3 girls from Mongolia. And after a few rounds of LASTEST amnesty programs.
Doesn’t he sound like Egyptian and Suharto-era generals? Someone has just been charged in Egypt for insulting the AF. Remember, if you allow undemocratic power centres to grow unchecked and then undermine and overthow democratic norms, you are part of the problem.
C’mon people try to be understanding, the general is only protecting his future directorship in one of the GLC’s. Ethics? Ethics be damned.
Isn’t it a kind of bribery?
Defending and enriching oneself selfishly, instead of Rakyat dan Negara.
In this country the definitions are not the same. It is sometimes called “money politics”, “developmental pledges” etc, but not bribery.
Dear Dr. Rafick,
You have said it all. I hope your comment is an eye opener for the rest. If it was me, I would have said it differently, bearing in mind the Armed Forces sworn allegience to remain apolitical. Our unbridled loyalty first is to the King, not to any politician or a particular political party. This has to be understood clearly by all members of the Armed Forces.
It is very scary to see so many of these kind of leaders with a twisted mind and who are so blind.
Eh, How about this ? … posted 08 Aug 2011.
http://mindnoevil.blogspot.com/2011/08/story-of-two-ids.html
Remember Dr ? …. in one of your earlier article concerning elections, you mentioned ” only a tip of the iceberg …”
Bye now … gotta go.
The two ID is a non issue. Its a new system implemented by NRD so that when soldiers join and leave the service NRD dont have to issue IC anymore. Now soldiers carry 1 NRIC and 1 MIlitary ID. The military ID is only valid for military purposes and the IC is valid for all other purposes
Doc,
May I know, since when was this implemented. I used to joke about my friend whom has no MyKad. He had just left the RMAF a few years back. He had to apply for his MyKad and get assimilated into a civilian life.
Thanks.
Hello, Dr.
Hmmm, having two ID is a non issue ?? Sure or not ?
Beg to differ .. can see repercussions or implications, such as
1. Use military ID for postal votes ( normally done few days in advance) for Parliament / State calon, based on his unit location.
2. Then use NRIC / MyKad for normal vote at POLLING station, using home address as per NRIC (different from above).
That being the case, he or she can vote TWICE, no ?
Next issue – IF a military personnel goes AWOL, and is stopped / caught by Polis Tentera, he can always deny he’s the wanted person by producing his civilian NRIC, kan ? (understand that PT has no power to arrest cilvilians)
Is the above scenario possible, or too far fetched ? Worth a thought, Yes ?
Cheers, loyal combrade.
Over and Out.
GB,
Your arguement in point 1 & 2 is VALID. It was done before. Can and will be done again, i suppose. I couldn’t reveal more than that for the moment. Cheers !
Ah, so wasn’t too far fetched after all, eh.
Thanks for the confirmation, SAR Nuri !
The pleasure is all mine, Mate.
Dear GB,
It is not common for a serving personnel to have to ID cards at the same time (altough we does come across such incidents from time to time). But the same Mil ID could be used at both postal and normal polling centers.
Typo error,pardon me please. “I meant to say TWO ID cards” and “we DO come across”. Cheers !
Dear Sir
Real traitor is those who see evil and do nothing.
I didn’t want to write this initially as I want to refrain from upsetting many during this month. But some here I think has gone beyond fair comment and I have to write this despite being defiled.
Before I write, let me state my stand.
On postal vote, practices in liberal democracies is very open. If one can’t make it at polling one can ask for postal votes. What one does with ones votes it’s up to them. Thus they can even ask for their wife to vote and post it. Nobody knows though ethically wrong. Bersih knows this too. Their request for overseas voters to vote by post will entail this. As long as they can vote it’s fine. But somehow this is where I criticize bersih, where overseas Malaysian seems to have more privilege than us here. Somehow they treat us in Malaysia as not being able to handle our votes and overseas Malaysian more intelligent. I hope doc can finish off with bersih demands which some i find skewed and one sided (like the demand on objective reporting).
Having said that I’m against voting by coercion which I think should be a crime. This tantamount to electoral fraud particularly if systemic and large scale. Any head in organisation which actively participate and knowingly condone it should be accountable and be punished. This is the right course of action. Thus if the AF chief knows about this and willingly perpetuate he must be put to account for this, resign n punished.
And consequently those knowingly involved or have knowledge of it has a duty to stand up n be counted by at least reporting the same to the authority. In this case to various authorities within army structure police and EC. You cannot participate in it willingly. It’s similar to those who condemned polIce of bribe but bila kena tahan bagi duit coz don’t want to go through the court process. Worse they don’t report it to relevant authorities thus in effect allow the same policeman to do it again with another person and perpetuate the wrongs. These persons are equally guilty and should be condemned as well. They are sampah masyarakat also. They should stand and be counted.
Thus If it is true here that a former general knows about this and have actual knowledge it’s widespread during the army and did not do a single thing when he was in office, I have nothing but condemnation. I hold him equally guilty. You too must hold the same contempt like people you claim “bodek bodek”. For he has power to change but did nothing. Only talk when he’s no longer in office. This is wrong.
The way forward is we must get any electoral fraud issue out . Government has enacted a whistleblower act. Have not gone to the breath of the matter but if its not applicable to army the army itself must have a similar mechanism. This will encourage selling of beans of illegal activities.
To counter this within the army is not that onerous. Every army officer must be educated that they have the right to vote. There must be a process where they can complain for not getting the vote. Once they get the vote it’s up to them to do with it. They can even destroy it if they want.
I’ve already witnessed first hand on how this postal votes work. The delivery process and counting of it is very transparent. No one even pr can dispute that. The dispute to me is limited as to whether the votal form was actually delivered to the personnel and whether there was coercion to exercise the same. Once they receive the forms it’s up to them what to do with it.
“Selling” of beans should be spilling the beans.
Ellese, I would say your comment is fair and balance. Only one point when you claim “I hold him equally guilty”, on principles context, i agree but comes to reality, easier said than done. Let the people judge via democracy process is to me a good answer. Bersih resolution needs refine but overall, they are in the right direction.
I also think it’s easier said than done. But cannot acceed to it because AF of chief can also argue the same and negate responsibility. Have to be firm.
On bersih, I think there’s only two concerns (unless others can convince otherwise). The rest are highly debatable and arguably one sided/partisan/unjustifiable. But my main regret on the overall direction of bersih is that it doesn’t reflect the whole truth of the matter. Having first hand knowledge I think save for the concerns raised our process of voting is very transparent and most importantly allows objection which are fundamental to any free and fair election. Perhaps if doc wants to finish off on bersih iI will elaborate.
Dear Ellese,
Quote: “I didn’t want to write this initially as I want to refrain from upsetting many during this month. But some here I think has gone beyond fair comment and I have to write this despite being defiled.”
BIG THANK YOU for acknowledging it.
This is a month to practise REFRAIN too.
I know it is hard to refrain, just for one month only, I know you can do it.
Cheers!
Bersih knows this too. Their request for overseas voters to vote by post will entail this. As long as they can vote it’s fine. But somehow this is where I criticize bersih, where overseas Malaysian seems to have more privilege than us here. Somehow they treat us in Malaysia as not being able to handle our votes and overseas Malaysian more intelligent. …… Ellese
This is bogeyman argument. You projected your delusions onto the suggested postal votes for malaysians and then argued that oversea malaysians have more privilege and in your classic obfuscation you added how you felt slighted by your own delusional projection.
The form of the oversea postal votes had not been proposed and what made you think it would be like the liberal democracy ?
Simple. You can only vote by two ways. Either in attendance or by postal. How many postal possibility can you do? You get your voting forms and either you post by mail or like in Malaysia a designated pos bags. Probably you’ve not seen how it works. Go n ask your pr reps.
P. S. Why do you write like this for the past few comments. Most personal comments you get debunked. I thinking you’re wasting your ability. You’re intelligent. Use it. Put a stand debate and defend. It’s more enriching.
When your comment has no substance but characteristic condemnation and vitriole of pr , their supporters and bersih the only intelligent response would be to undermine the basis of comment. In this regard it is a bogeyman argument – a fictitious, fabricated objection cast upon pr and bersih.
Is this personal or are you taking this too personally ? If I wanted to get personal I would have called you a blinking idiot.
As to saying that your sop is to obfuscate, how wrong am I ? You often went on a tangent, probably due to your leaning as a result of the chip on your shoulder, with extraneous and irrelevant criticism and condemnation of pr and bersih. When I characterised you comment as a lot of hot air releasing from the rear orifice, wasn’t that accurate description as well ?
Is this personal or are you taking this too personally ? If I had wanted to get personal I would have called you a bloody a*hole badly in need of an overhaul
.
Btw., I don’t really have any particular fondness for pr either but when lies, distortions and fabrications are used to manipulate others then any decent muslim and those who cherish basic truth and justice would have stand up to such shenanigan.
What’s wrong with you? There’s nothing substantive here but an attack on my personal self. You want to play this rubbish route? What do you want to achieve? Rubbish. If you want to play this way fine with me.
You see rubbish ? I am merely a mirror
I pointed out the fallacy and flaws in your argument. Fallacies are subtle in that it would appeared logical but upon closer examination is flawed. The facts of the matter is less relevant when the structure in which you build your argument is flawed. Perhaps you could better understand things presented in a nutshell.
Modus operandi 1
– You projected thoughts, ideas, characteristics on to an issue or system and then you pummeled this bogeyman to death. And you believe you have demolish other people’s argument or system.
- This approach to dialectic is devious. If you know about it and yet use it then you are devious. If not you are just plain ignorant.
Modus operandi 2
- You started out with the specifics and then expand it by making some addition to the argument or system. When you create space you create a toehold to counter the initial argument or system under examination. You then move to generalisation. Such movement from specifics to generalisation is again a fallacy.
- Again if you know this and yet use it then you are devious. If not then you are plain ignorant.
Modus operandi 3
- You introduce extraneous issues creating multitudes of bifurcations. This devious approach was used since ’95 when government and large organisations realised that many facts presented on the internet was causing them harm. They then embarked on such dirty tactic to obfuscate and divert the thrust of people’s attention or contempt for the government or the organisation.
- This dirty tactic is to create analysis paralysis. If you know this and yet use it then you are devious. If not then you are ignorant.
Modus operandi 4
- Of course there is that heavy chip on your shoulder
Amus,
I must say, the above post is a masterpiece of sorts
Kah! Kah! Kah! ROLOL… aiyo!!!
I see. Let us see who applies this. This is a wholly personal attack and you condone it.
He did not call you names or using foul language.. he is just merely expressing his analysis of your good self. That is his view and not necessary the truth and not necessary that other readers agrees with it.
Anyway, keep it light.. Laughter is the best medicine..
Bro I can apply this to you
.
Amus had a bitter experience of employing the same strategy against me but could not pushed it through.
When we argued on lynas I took pain to understand your argument. I told you upfront I was for pro nuclear plant position. I told you I’m aware of radiation emission. You are the one alleging it’s dangerous. Then I took pains to really understand your arguments. I even list out radiation emission of our daily activities. It was only later i realized that you build your argument based on a different type of plant and you did not know the specs of the plant. When I persist you claim that how should you know that.
Why do you think I don’t see your arguments being flawed. You build your argument on a false logic and assumption to suit your partisanship. Was this not devious? Wasnt this a spraying of unjustifiable details to cover the issue? The issue was simple. What was the plant’s emission level and why ban this plant over other emission of other mundane activities?
I have been persistent and consistent on my stand. Every time you obsfucate the issue I drag you back to the main point. Everytime you tried to paralyze my contention I still stuck to the core issue. You cannot blame me if you are not able to justify. I told you upfront and many times where I came from. For you now to imply my argument is devious or wrong is outright wrong and mischievous. In fact I should be calling you that for misrepresenting what you did.
I did not attack you personally. But since then you went personal. You’ve never argued on points just like this issue. Bringing up the unpleasant discussion you had. For what you say above I can apply in toto to you. You never put a stand since because you knew this false method you employed could not sustain. So now employing means to run me down on how I argue rather than arguing the issue yourself interspersed with personal remarks like “bloody a**hole.”
With others you can impress them with your extraneous details or sidetracked bifurcations of issues. But don’t do this with me. Two ways we can move. Either you resort to this personal way or put a stand to debate. I will respond accordingly.
My STUPID GURU DOING IS ROUND…., sad to say he is a asshole…! His name is ELLESE…, and his in law is Observer the great from the rear.
Yes, how many postal possibility can you do ? The term “postal” only suggest that the post is involved. Post is only a means of communication. The variation lies in how validation is done. Your SPECIFIC example of how election fraud could be carried out is really plain silly and myopic
. Research on election fraud using postal votes found that there is no significant difference with election fraud using polling station voting system.
Look at malaysia’s election system where it had been acknowledged that widespread fraud had been the norm for years even by foreign observers. Whatever system you devise the dishonest will always find a way to cheat. Why deny our citizens of their right to choose their representative ?
*** For me my participation in blogs are just a minor distraction and often do not even know others had responded to my post. For you it would seemed it is a career
Rubbish. Tell me how many variations? Tell me why should all malaysian overseas voters be entitled to postal vote? And how can this process differ? You don’t have a clue how our process works kan? Tell me how you can cheat at polling booth and hoodwinked the agent?
Now you Pretend this is a minor distraction. Pure bull. When engaged you in lynas you respond very frequently. But when you can’t defend you take cheap idiotic potshots like this and the above. You are Exactlly “a lot of hot air releasing from the rear orifice” and certainly in your words “a bloody a*hole badly in need of an overhaul”.
When engaged you in lynas you respond very frequently. But when you can’t defend you take cheap idiotic potshots like this and the above.
…..ellese
Hmmm….I thought you were only trying to understand the issues with regard to lynas and was not argueing with me ? Just to think I took so much pain and care to explain the issues to you and now you say I can’t argue and resort to potshot.
Since the very beginning of internet which I had participated since(gosh! I suddenly feel so old
) I had always thought of the internet as just a distraction 
. Too many people take what was said on the internet seriously and take it too personally.
Take a few days off from the internet and really get a life. Observe if you suffer any withdrawal symptom. If you do it is best you try to seek help
Btw. I “suddenly” stopped responding to your reply (did you reply ? ) was because you were resorting to myriad bifurcations and we were leading no where. At that time I also joined facebook which I had not done so before. I had posted there very frequently.
Ellese,
If one can’t make it at polling one can ask for postal votes.
Yes, agreed as you would be counted / classified as Absent Voter, if you meet the EC requirement / Election Laws.
What one does with ones votes it’s up to them.
Yes, agreed that your vote is your right.
Thus they can even ask for their wife to vote and post it.
Now, that seem very2 far fetched. You cannot do such a thing. Care to check your facts first, please ? Thank you.
Peace !
Precisely my point. If you do postal voting, who can check it? Overseas they can even mail back. That’s what it means you can do whatever you want with your votes. What facts do you have to counter this? Im not arguing from ethical or legal perspective. What’s stopping a person who after receiving the ballot paper asking wife to fill up and post it? Could you elaborate your contrarion facts please.
Peace.
Hello…., tulis bahasa Inggeris pasar bolihkah…? Confuse…sampai fuse pun sudah bakar.
Write…please do…, but make sense so others can comprehend.
Meek, LOL.
Seriously I feel the same way too reading you post/comments. No offense intended.
You kena champur bahasa keling dengan jawa…, then you can comprehend what I write…, if not…tunggu kena menekek
sajalah. Aku bisa kena..?
Tapi jangan jadi serumpum Lalang….nanti buruk padahnya. .., syok sendiri sikit sikit bolihlah…!
Dear Ellese,
Firstly, I would like to request that you don’t take my comment thread as hostile or in a confrontational nature.
Secondly, from your original comment above, I can only deduce that you genuinely have some misconception about what and how Postal Votes (PV) are done. I may be wrong in assuming this, but let me beg my pardon at the earliest onset of my reply as below.
From my reading of your comment, it seems that your understanding of postal votes is that as if it is something that is mailed to you (like the typical snail mail or poslaju or whatever). Then, you’d go about marking the ‘X’ and re-sending it back via the same means.
Actually, that is not the case. For a registered postal voter, this would be the processes involved that I wish to share not only with your goodself alone but to the benefit of all the readers in this forum as well (That is, with the approval of the good DR himself).
1. A serving personnel is automatically registered as a postal voter in the constituency where his / her base is located. This is done by the Base Admin Section.
2. A week (normally) before polling day, all registered postal voters in that particular base are required to be present at the base’s auditorium / hall or any suitable facilities therein.
3. The Base Admin Section will designate a Returning Officer (RO) from within personnels serving in the base (normally would be a Commisioned Officer- Admin Trades etc) and be assigned with a few of Non-Commisioned Officer (NCO) staffs.
4. When it is your turn to vote,you would report to this RO with your IC and will be given an envelope (about the size of an A4 paper) and will be required to sign in the Master Electrol Roll (MER) in front of the RO. This is to acknowledge acceptance of your PV envelope. The RO will coutersign the MRE to verify your presence at the ballot. Your PV envelope will contain the following :
4a. Your ballot papers
4b. A letter prepared on your behalf that it is indeed you who is casting the vote. – This letter needs to be signed in front of the RO with your IC as the supporting document.
4c. A smaller envelope for your ballot papers
5. You will then proceed to the voting stations, cast your votes and then place item 4a together with item 4b above in 4c. You then seal the envelope and put it in the PV sack at the center of the hall. You are done casting your PV.
I sincerely hope that my explanation on the matter sufficient to answer your queries. Cheers !
Yep. That’s the normal process here. I’ve witnessed personally how postal votes are prepared and how it’s counted. I however have not personally witnessed the voting process though I understand it to be the same as you wrote.
Two things I want to ask you. How is it possible here for one person to vote for others here as alleged by many people here? Please bear in mind if not mistaken polling agent can now witness this.
Two when I refer to postal voting I make reference to the practice in liberal democracies. Please check practices in switzerland US and to a limited extent the UK. ( you can google this or just search Wikipedia). Here you can post your votes by mail. No one can check how you vote or whether you give your wife to vote. Coz why? Coz you’re entitled to one and it’s up to you to exercise. Hope I clarify.
Ellese
(1) It happens when soldiers do not get the ballot papers. Those unused ballot papers were marked by third party. As a pro BN person, you will never agree such thing is happening but as a former soldier, take my word for it. It happened. In fact it was the soldiers votes in Kem Batu 9/10 Kuantan that safe Najib in his Pekan seat in 1999.
Dear Dr Rafick,
Sir,
We know for a fact that he won by 200 votes. But then again, it’s only people like us who are privy to such information.
Dear Dr Rafick,
Sir,
This is your blog and I know very well that I to need to mind my manners here. I would just like to apologise if you feel me engaging commentator Ellese detrimental or disrespectful of you. But, then again, there’s only so much you can tolerate. Thank you, Sir.
Feel free to comment but remain tall and professional.
Doc,
Ever a Gentlemen…, betul kah ni..? Doc did you receive anything from AK..?
Receive what?
Doc,
You’re making an assertion which I can’t verify. Why not ask pr to disclose the maker of the pekan voting fraud all the way up including better still the instruction by the commanding officer who received instruction from bn? This will hit najib, bulls eyes. Right now it’s still one sided. The problem with this is that pas n pr purposely did not follow the link. What if the commanding officers of all of them ever deny the instruction tomorrow? Why should one claims be weighed higher than the other?
My stand on postal voting is that we should look into practices in liberal democracies for flexibility and higher democratic participation. Unless you want me to elaborate I want a system that I myself can opt for postal voting. I don’t like to queue on that day and may not be available. But I want to vote. So im for postal voting. What I want to do with the ballot it’s entirely up to me. I may even throw it or ask someone to fill up and send it by post. It’s up to me what I want to do with my vote. You must respect me as to my rights on the vote. This is simplistic respectful convenient mature and highly participatory method to those who have registered.
With this comes two principles. One no coercion. And the other the right to ballot papers. On the latter there must be mechanism to complain and redress this.
In our case from what you assert I think the major problems lie in these two issues. There appears coercion and the other is the lackadaisical attitude to demand ballot papers. We need to educate the army personnel of their right to ballot paper. This should be a given but if it’s widespread EC should reeducate their rights and put in a mechanism of complain.
Dear Ellese,
Your first question : How is it possible here for one person to vote for others here as alleged by many people here?
Simple, when you are in power, you can do wonders. That’s the crux of the postal vote reforms that BERSIH 2.0 is fighting for. The system currently in place does not guarantee that a postal voter will be at base on polling day. This is where the abuse takes place. No one around to vote, so someone will vote on your behalf. If you have never witnessed a postal voting process first hand, then you are in no way qualified to comment on the matter. There’s simply no check and balance as far as postal votes are concerned, in this case.
Your second question : Two when I refer to postal voting I make reference to the practice in liberal democracies.
Again, a simple answer. We are not talking about liberal democracies like Switzerland, UK and the US aren’t we ? We are talking about Malaysia, truly Asia. Where everything under the sun is possible if you have the ways & means to it. We are in a sense, more like Somalia, Uganda , Zimbabwe, Tanzania etc as far a liberal democracy of your definition is concerned.
Have I made myself clear ? Thank you.
Having said that, I think you have bitten off more than you can chew. Your knowledge seems to be limited on the subject that you are so passionately pursuing. Yet you try so hard to justify your arguement, no matter what. In Malay, it’s called “Menegakkan benang yang basah”.
There were a lot of commentators who gave negative replies to your comments. But I have always engaged you in good faith and tried to impart whatever knowledge i could to you, by presenting the facts.
Any person worth his / her salt would know that engaging someone like you would be an exercise in futility as you write with a forked tongue. I would therefore rest my case. It is pointless to engage in an intelligent discourse with a person of shallow mind like yours. Thank you. And may GOD bless you.
Dear K,
This is uncalled for. Not once I do a personal comment on you yet you choose to do it against me. Why must you be like this? Since you adopt this manner, I will do too.
1st principle. Everybody has a right to comment. If you don’t believe in this you’re worse than bn. You see by now most pro pr commentators also don’t have knowledge on the subject matter yet they comment without restriction. So too most of bersih supporter who doesnt have a clue of it. They too criticize the chief of AF not knowing even what his background contribution is or how postal vote works. Yet not even any criticism by you. Now tell me why I don’t consider you as a forked tounge or hypocrites?
Two. You are the one who responded to my comments. I’ve written before this my view on postal voting for overseas voters and I started the debate with:
“On postal vote, practices in liberal democracies is very open.”
You then question my interpretation based on your limited local knowledge on army postal voting. Then I explain you how it works in liberal democracies and you say were not talking about liberal democracies pula. Gila bab punya argument. You came in to the argument then suddenly forgot the root of my contention. Ridiculous.
What’s wrong with you? If you want to allow all malaysians to vote, are you setting up a poll station in every part of the world. Say a scientist in antartica is given the right to vote. How is ec going to do this in antartica? You want the executive to conduct the vote on behalf of EC? Is pr really ok with this? Is this allowed under our consti? How do you ensure no rigging? How do you ensure those who post their ballot is the one who is registered and occurrence like the one you alleged In the army doesn’t happen?. That’s why you must consider how postal voting is practiced worldwide. Pr thinks they can win with overseas voters so they must want as many to vote to win kan? But I think they’ve not thought through. Similarly with you.
Now justify why bersih demand on overseas voters is acceptable and not lead to more dispute? If you write without personal attack I will do so. If you persist on personal attack I can do so as well.
We are not talking about one lone scientist at the Antartic. We are talking about the millions of citizens working and studying overseas. How many full-time students overseas have actually been given the opportunity to vote? I do not have the numbers but I have heard from many that our overseas missions think that only govt sponsored students are allowed to do so.
As for “postal voting” in the military, it is sometimes logistically impossible to send the ballot papers to everyone especially when they are stationed deep in the jungle along the border. Some sites are only accessible by helicopter and our RMAF have difficulty sending supplies and transporting the troops during change-overs; no thanks to the govt procurement and servicing contracts. So what happens to the “excess” empty ballot papers is anyones guess.
By the way ellese, if you keep going off on a tangent like this, you might end up past Pluto!
Love the last para … way past Pluto !
Probably already lost in outer space ….. gyro failure ?
An old space ship ?
Cheers, mate !
GB/cskok8,
He has gone past Pluto and now he is a ALLKU PULLITY, aka AP.
One and the only…., and only the Mamak can bestow him the AWARD.
C,
. You are wrong. Please check the rule. It’s not limited to govt sponsored students only. We’ve had this debate already.
On scientist, if you want to give all overseas Malaysian the right to vote you must provide mechanics to vote. Otherwise discriminatory and depriving ones right to vote. That’s why bersih (and you) r a bit shortsighted.
On postal voting, my argument is that it is inherent in all postal voting system, the same intrinsic problem of verification. The solution I thought would be in trusting your citizens as adopted in liberal democracies.. Give the people an option to do postal voting. Trust them to do what they deem fit. Objection arises only if they don’t get the ballot papers and coercion. I’m repeating already. so in this case educate our army personnel
to demand for their ballots. It’s their rights after all. How they deal with it its up to them. (I’m repeating again).
On the overseas students, you know it; all of us in this blog know it. But the problem is do our embassies and high commissions know it???
Dear K, if a postal voter can ask anyone to mark his ballot paper, why can’t normal voter do the same?
This is not right!
Observer,
The problems is that most of the postal voters don’t even know they have ballot papers to mark.
Sorry K…, just extended my views.
HEROES ARE ALL THE SOLDIERS WHO COME OUT AND SPEAK OF THE ELECTION FRAUD CARRIED OUT BY THE ARMY MAFIA.
The arm forces chief is a filthy rotten liar covering up for a filthy gomen and (deleted by admin). (deleted by admin) knows the election frauds going on widespread and he still keeps quiet because he is part of the whole mafia in prolonging the thieving, swindling, frauds to keep themselves rich.
I hope a few decent soldiers or police arrest Najib, the AF chief and (deleted by admin) and punish (word replaced by admin) them the next day for atrocities against rakyat.
since this topic is about our servicemen and women. i would like to share an article that makes me proud of our Royal Army. Good job!
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3215/malconisaf1.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4568/malconisaf2.jpg
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3074/malconisaf3.jpg
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/174/malconisaf4.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2618/malconisaf5.jpg
Dear Mr Rocko, I believe the decision to send our medical corp to Afghanistan is a political decision by BN government.
The army is just a political tool of the Government.
By sending the 40 men and women to Afghanistan, BN govt was able to cement better ties to Obama’s administration. Then is was critical for Obama’s administration to show that a modern Muslim country is in Afghanistan to support his war in Afghanistan.
We didn’t send an armed force is because not be seen as an oppressor or occupier of another Muslim country.
My question is what did Malaysia get in return for this favor to Obama?
The military medical & dental services was also used to provide care in the interior of Sarawak earlier this year. It was called “Jiwa Murni” project. Just so happened to be a few weeks before the state elections.
Just to add, the AF hospitals in Peninsular was running on a skeletal crew for months…during the period
Where do you think the personnel are going to come from???
Hmm…. ever heard of the term called “tumpangan sementera” ?
In simplified English, it’s known as “temporary attachment / posting”.
Very handy short-term measure for certain objectives…….
Got the drift ?
No lah. These people were sent on 2 week stints – so it is temporary duty. Meanwhile the military personnel and family suffer but what to do? Have to sacrifice for Najib and the BN govt.
Doc,
Who decides..? What’s the role of a Defense Minister….and the role of a milled down Panglima..?
Who calls the shot..?
Is our Army past bed time…? or have they been drill and drool to be servants to some stupid politicians ?
Was this the angkara of a Indian Muslim Mamak that the Malay Panglimas just bought into it just because of Religion.., and now are faced with a influx of immigrants …who will in time claim they are more malay like the Mamak…, what happens to the pure malays then…? Forget about guys like our DPM .., he still claims he his a Javanese..and our PM a Bugis.
Our DPM only claims he is Malaysian after been a Muslim , Malay and A Malaysian when he kicks the bucket. ( Taken a turn just like a Indian dah lebih belit ) But memang ada kait dengan issue., just stirring from all angles..
Do they know who they are serving…? Is it not the KING and the Country..!
If Yes….once again what’s the role of a Defense Minister..?
The General was following orders la…what he said on mainstream TV 180811 is cause for contention.He said that the people should be grateful that there are people like them protecting the country.To this General i say..”to uphold the security of the country,please ensure the mass incursions of illegals that cross borders don’t account to the problems we have at hand.Why would the home ministry have an amnesty program if not for your lack of security on your part?
And for you to blindly state that nothing of that sort speaks volumes.
To have your brothers in arms standing next to you all figeting on TV also tells of the problem you are facing.
If the AF Chief wasn’t a bodek man, Umno wouldn’t have made him the Chief in the first place. Can’t expect any truth from these yes-men.
This General forgot it is the rakyat who is paying his salaries and perks and it is really “kurang sopan” for him to come on TV and screw his paymasters like this, how can he talk down to the rakyat, what kind of fcuking arrogance is this? No officer and no gentleman at all!
100% with you on this one.
Only traitors will betray the trust of the citizens of the country.
Only traitors will manipulate the laws of the country to gain political dominance.
Only the weak and those who lacked a functioning brain will find it fit to break the law of the country for the benefit of their political masters because sooner or later, they will have to pay for their indiscretions and land themselves in jail.
The image of our king and country has been damaged by these traitors who are willing to bastardise the country and the royalty with their acts of treason.
Such treasoneous idiots must brought to justice and must never be allowed to escape their punishment otherwise others will follow their footsteps and when that happens, all hell will break loose and their disrespect will become open defiance against king and country!
Sack that idiotic general and throw him into jail. The laws of the country must not be allowed to be overrided by such devious and immoral person who tries portray himself as a “Muslim” !
Muslim my foot! He is just another devious opportunist who showed total disrespect to the religion, king and country! Muslims must never allow these opportunists to desecrate their faith/religion. Such pretend Muslims must be flushed out to preserve the beauty of Islam
Dear Doc
If I may add on to what you and the earlier commentators have said.
When I heard him over Malaysiakini TV, my God, I felt sorry for this man. I cannot see the intellect and maturity of a serving AF Chief in him.
Obviously he was not prepared with what he wanted to say. A fundamental error. He compromised himself saying that the AF is apolitical but his speech is far from being apolitical. He chose to speculate that ‘parties were out to smear the AF’ and the ‘ex servicemen whistleblowers were manipulated’ – strong political statements.
I think he was not reminded that he is speaking to the nation and not to soldiers on parade.
If only he had said that ‘I do not know what really happened in the past but it will never happened under my watch’, many former soldiers like me who happened to be on the other side of the divide would know that he is truly a soldier and we will accord him the due respect.
Doc,
If only our PDRM and the ATM …were towards Loyalty towards KING and Country…., we should have gone to space and the moon.
We have guys at the helm…, not knowing …but their functions are..? They believe that the guys who hire…need the first spark…., like ” FIRST NIGHT “.
So stupid are our so call Knights …appointed by leaders …we ourselves appointed when we were Stake holders.
Time for us stake holders to elect….a cat in replacement of our current Cabinet ministers.
Negara ini dah teruk dan amat tenat. Seorang General & ketua ATM sudah bertukar dari seorang ‘professional soldier’ kepada seorang politikus! Apa yg keluar dari mulut dia sungguh tak ku sangka sekala. Macam seorang ahli BN. Dia marah kpd 4 orang mejar yg telah membocor rahsia ATM yang selama ini telah memangkah undi bagi pihak askar lain. Sekarang tahulah rakyat apa maksud undi pos. Ia adalah undi penipuan yg paling dahsyat! Yang telah memenangkan calon BN yang telah kalah! Bila dah menang melalui undi pos, dia dilantik perdana meneteir , meneteri kabinet dan membuat undang-undang untuk kita patuhi! Apa sudah jadi! Menteri haram, kebinet haram, undang-undang haram! Haram jadah!
It is good that the AF Chief said what he has said. His statement did indeed highlight the issue of Undi Pos in the AF, which has been abused by UMNO/BN over the last 12 PRUs.
We have a dunggu 4 star general as a AF Chief!! shit.
anakbanjar,
You need to be qualified to be our ATM Chief….., bukan semua bolih.!
You need some…….shit and you must be a loose cannon without common sense….., then you are capable of been chosen and you still need to learn how to lick lollipops.
Doc,
If we have a stupid…ATM General like ZMZ…, then we are doom…, how can idiots like him be entrusted to helm the ATM..?
Okay…a bit rude…? Zakariah…, were you born and taught about been righteous..? If not….is a non issue. If yes…go learn your religion.
Don’t be a waste tissue in the toilet of BN politicians.
Now, I am really worried!! If this is the person who is the head of the armed forces…God save our country!! What goes on in his head? Where is the logic? Where is the awareness of all possibilities? Its lucky our country is not at war…..otherwise tentu kalah….cheh cheh cheh
leekh,
The minus sum assumption is ….only idiots are appointed…to what ever post because some idiots need them to play the five fingers.
never came across me those years…but if it came, I would be court marshalled as I am one that fights off ‘political soldiers’…
Nice to know you Bro…, people like you are scare…, wondering why Capt is dump found.
Might be Kapas needs a total revamp.
I was an officer in the RMAF for 13 years. I can confirm THERE WAS, IS AND WILL BE postal votes abuse. I can vouch for this through my first hand experience while I was a service personnel. And I am not in any way being used (“Diperalatkan”, as the Chief of Army said). I am just interested in presenting the truth to the masses. When people holding big posts and titles such as Tan Sri’s / Chief of this and that say something, they perceive that what they are saying will the taken as the Holy Gospel. But times are a changing. The truth cannot be suppressed any longer. These sort of “big shots” need to realise that. IMHO, this Tan Sri is either is so out touch with real ground situation at the polling stations or is simply lying. Period.
Hello skot! What year were you in service. Have we met as I too served the AF for the same duration
Dear Sir,
I was in the RMAF from 01st Dec 1997 till 28th Apr 2011. Nuri helicopter SAR pilot. You name really rings a bell but I honestly can’t put a face to it, Sir. Please Pardon Me.
I left in 1999. Last post Subang. Btw, my face? Easy google my name.. plenty of images
Dear Sir,
Thank you for the info. I will google it, for sure. I have been following your blog for quite some time now, begining with the late TBH CSI. But I have never commented anything until today due to the fear of obvious repercussions that befalls serving personnels that publicly comments on sensitive issues. My loyalty is to the King and Country only. And I will speak out against any lies by any lesser men, such as in this case.
Good for you. You are much wiser than some of your former “chiefs”
kraznyoctbyar.
My god .., your call name is like a snakes coil…, anyway…forget about king and country…, if you want to comment.
The king and country can read the lines in between…., if not then we can not only consider ourselves such…the others togather.
meek,
What’s your point, if I may ask ? Thank you.
My point Bro…., is to let loose…, if you feel you are right and want to walk the talk……, like the blog’s call R2W.
Regards…, no hard feelings.
Dr. Rafick: “says that he is not sure about it in the past (because he was at a lower rank back then and was not aware of the scam) but while he is holding the fort he will ensure that it will not happen. ”
Hey doctor, you are helping the AF chief (who don’t deserve such high ranking because he is clearly playing politics and not doing what he should for the king and country
I dont know his background, therefore I would offer a benefit of doubt. I can only judge him based on his reaction in the media today
ablogsmith,
Till the time we clear all short smart and stupid asses from all sectors that are link with stupid government leaders…..in BN……, we can just say…a country run by the cats.
Can we let a dog run this country..? No.
But we all forgot….it’s currently run by DOGS.
My salute spring to you sir
I admire your courage in calling a spade a spade
jbta,
Calling a spade a spade…., sad to say you did not digest…., Doc was mild.., he was elusive…, but with conviction.
So let’s put it this way….you ….., in future need to call the shots..of the spade…calling another spade..
Lama tak dengar suara…, try calling them all SPADES.
Doc,
Another direct hit that destroyed the “Myth” of SPR integrity and honesty. Both SPR and it’s master were too cowardly to “own up” to their treachery, therefore they relied on their pet to take the hit for them. We can be sure that the pet of theirs will be handsomely rewarded after retirement (which most of the time means that he will be given a lucrative and high salaried post in the many “always non profitable BUT capital intensive, semi business, always charitable to politician, listed company cum retirement home that is the GLC).
Nick.
Nick,
We have guys running the block..as though..they have never seen it.., new but with the least of sense…., they make a mockery….of themselves.
Idiots they are not..! ….but lollipops suckers they are all.., so sad to say we have suckers running this country.
The heroes must get medals for setting fire under the enemy.
semuanya OK kot,
Salah Bro…., you only get a medal if your can convert a enemy to become a frog…, and you love lollipops.
Now that Rakyat knows how the armed forces personells’ votes are being manipulated, a special team has to be formed to ensure that the AF Chiefs don’t take the Rakyat for a ride again and that the AF personnel cast their votes duly witnessed by this special team.
Robert Seng,
Just like yum seng…., they A.F.P…., need to say enough is enough…, please don’t entice us with payouts,…tell the politicians loud and clear…like Humans.
We also need to see the gates of Heaven….., not Putrajaya and what not..?
AF personnel…should not be just happy with increments that just make them a party to fraud…, like PDRM…., they need to gauge the bigger picture…., the ones that will reflect upon then when they see the faces of their grandchildren…, hope it’s not to late.
Please don’t buy into a politicians speech., he never writes it, at times he don’t even know what he’s talking about. ( BN / PR )
We need to digest the way it’s suppose to run and to make it happen…, no two ways about it….., if not we are just about handicap seekers.
doc
1) the other day I was odw to a meeting. at the lift of my meeting venue, this white collar brat is scolding a security guard. he really talked thrash and embarassed the man in front of the public. the man’s head was down saying sorry softly
a whike later, i approached the pak guard.. he is retired army. part of Medicorp (same as you doc?).
it is sad that our heroes have to work jobs usually left for Indo and Bangla. worde that he go thrash by stuck up office workers.
anyeays doc.. i asked this before is there any organisation that look after welfare of our retired servicemen?
2) about the General. I reckon it really does depend on where ur stationed and the personel up top. he may have a more positive experience clean of vote rigging. tho i agree him labeling the officers as traitors is over he top.
aku bekas TLDM dan menamatkan perhidmatan pada 1993…aku hanya dpt ngundi pada 1999 untuk pertama kali nya..dari 1978 ke 1999 dah berapa kali pru aku tak pernah ngundi …tak pernah tengok rupa kertas undi…jadi sapa yg ngundi untuk aku…aku pn tak tau…cuma khabar angi dikalangan kawan2 ngatakan dah ada tukang pangkah..jadi bolih ke tan sri PAT buat pencerahan berkaitan kes mcm aku ni…memang aku tak dpt buktikan..tapi lojik akal nya ibarat nak tanda tangan apa2 surat dah tentu tuan badan yg sain…tapi ada pulak malaun yg di arah suroh sain…
aku bukan penghianat..aku bersedia untuk mempertahankan negara dari ancaman musuh..tapi aku akan tentan habis2an ‘penghianat ‘negara yg berkuasa dgn cara menipu
It is obvious that the AF Chief’s sense of duty is dictated by whoever pays his salary and accords him perks. Government of the day. Does he even understand what that phrase means, what the concept entails?
The people are the ones that you ought to be serving. They are “the government of the day” whom those that sit in the cabinet of the ruling party OK are supposed to be serving too.
The Chief is a real shame. He is supposed there to protect the people and serve King and country, with honour too if he knows the concept. But looking at the way he behaves at the PC (tears and all), I would not even trust this AF Chief to help my mother cross the street! DARN.
bc,
That’s the problem not only with these guys but the whole Civil service.
Just see the mentality., they don’t even know the separation of powers…, how can they be neutral..? Pls…read what I wrote above..account narrated by my late dad.
What is our intention in writing all these..? To create fear and divide our already divided nation and to tear down the pillars of harmony..?
No…! We just want the guys walking the corridor of Power to know that we are not ASSHOLES.
Great post. My salute.
Itulah yang di panggil “CARMA”…cari makan. Suatu sifat “kepimpinan” yang amat penting dalam Tentera Malaysia sekarang.
Iskandar….,
Minta maaf…” Carma ” started with PDRM…, sekarang dah jankit ATM.
Carma goes hand-in-hand with magabut (makan gaji buta).
Hello,
Just a short one. Loyalty….. give Money, problem solved ! Terang bulan, eh?
Here we go…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOFXYyxTCWM&feature=player_embedded
Cheers.
No corruption! Just kopi money!!
Hi, didn’t realise you also posted same video under taxation- income or wealth bases.
Anyway, the result after the expose … read Star today page 33…Cop in duit kopi video identified and suspended…Dep IGP.
Now, will that stop all the hanky panky of traffic policemen that ask for duit kopi ?
Only time will time, eh?
That is a positive move on RMP. Let that be a lesson to other traffic cop
GB,
Just remove underwear…semuanya beres.
This is talking cock…, but sad to say the ATM chief,,,,talk COCK tale of the year for idiots like us….Why..? We are smart …asses.
You’re right. He could have said, `we’ll investigate the matter further’ or something to that effect. That would show that he’s neutral and will carry out his job with honesty and integrity,
ladyjadeite,
Better said then non….., but if he is just another moron in that position for God knows why..? then this is the answer…..a morons reply.
Do you still remember the Air Force chief who told his men to vote BN because they must be grateful to them for paying their salaries? This is the “calibre” of our so-called leaders. Do you know why?
When these people retire, their pensions are less than 25% of their previous take-home pay. Plus they lose all the other “perks” of their office – I leave it up to your imagination what these are. So in order to maintain their life-style they hope to be appointed to the boards of GLCs and other public listed companies. If they do not play ball with the govt, then they just collect their pensions and go back to their kampungs.
This joker was already looking to be appointed to some stupid company as Director.
Can smart ass like Rafick and AK or GB and MS be one of them…?
Noway.., they are too smart for these assholes.., need to look for a another face down….without clothes….but the likes to say ” FUCK OFF ” .
Smart ass should read smart guys……, anyway it makes no different since I’m a smart ass…..more towards the donkeys family..need to fulfill certain requirements.
I was not surprised “ballot paper was marked by a corporal”!!! This is another UMNO dirty trick to hold on to power!
Bravo, put these assholes in their right places.
Till today I still can’t understand why there are so many such assholes in top hierarchy. You frequently see/hear them in political parties, cabinet members, govt dept, GLCs, etc etc.
Always thinking only they are smart, not realising how utterly foolish they really are when the real pandai rakyat decide to speak up!
My brother and my cousin brother were both serving the armed forces some 15 years ago. They too told me that their ballot papers were not crossed by them. Many honest exservicemen can attest to that. Any denial is just a denial.
Well said Doc!! Lest we forget S.Johnson who said Patriotism the last refuge of a SCOUNDREL, we sure have a lot of them in our ROUGUES GALLERY aka The CABINET!!