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I am having a dual mind about writing this piece as several people reminded me to slow down and stop whacking PR. There are readers that say that I have personal vendetta against Azmin. Honestly I don’t. I write base on my own assessment on situation. As always it is written without fear or favor.
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Right now, it is without denial after the PKR polls fiasco my respect for Azmin has gone down rock bottom. With his latest statement about giving full autonomy to Sarawak, it shows how dangerous some politicians can be in trying to secure votes. I wonder who will give the promise to create a new settlement on the moon.
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The word autonomy means self ruled. It is a simple English word that carries a straight forward meaning which is basically the right to self governs. Isn’t Sarawak being ruled by Sarawakians at the moment? When politician’s starts making a political speech using big words that can sent a wrong message to the people, it begins to worry me. Is Azmin proposing that PKR or PR would provide the first step towards Sarawak separation from Malaysia.
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Slightly over 100 years ago we lost the Northern Malay states to the Thais. The whole northern peninsula now is known as Southern Thailand. The people are Malays and they have been fighting for independence.
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Over 50 years ago we lost Singapore after we got it back from the British. It was part of Johor in late 1800′s. We lost both the northern and southern region because of idiotic politicians that place their personal interest above the nation interest. And now are we setting the seeds of another separation. This really scares me.
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Are our politicians so hungry for power that they are willing say anything that they like to appease the masses? Are they so irresponsible that they are willing the border between being responsible and being irresponsible? Azmin statement in Sarawak is wrong.
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I think it is better that he apologize to the whole nation for making such statement. In my book, this can be considered as treason of the highest order. I do hope he will come forward and explain properly rather that creates controversy and confusion among the people of Sarawak. My advice to Azmin- Please be careful in what you say. Dont make a wrong wish.
- By the way I would like to make an appeal to all readers. If you are a victim of an abandon housing project or know some who is, please join VICTIMS. We need to get our act together and strength comes with numbers. The MSM published some comments from Dato Chor Minister of Housing following VICTIMS “Family Day” at KLCC on Friday. Download an application form HERE and send it to us via EMAIL. Please spread this message to 10 other people.
Autonomy – Utter NONSENSE!
December 13, 2010 by Dr R@28
211 Responses
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Dr Raffick, you said: ‘Which part of the POA 18/20 is not being practiced at the moment? Please advice?
How about POA #1: “Point 1: Religion
While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in Borneo (Sarawak & Sabah), and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to Borneo”
Can you kindly clarify that? As a Sarawakian, I feel this Point is not being adhered to at all. The Sarawak Governmenn under Taib Mahmud and previously Rahman Yakub, both Muslims are/were governing the state as if Islam IS the official religion. Go out on the streets and any non-Muslims, especially the non-Muslim natives who form the majority in the state will tell you this is how they feel.
Add to this, issues such as schools being only allowed to serve halal food, rural native children being forced to speak Malay only in their boarding schools, history books being changed to reflect emphasis on Islamic civilisation, school reports reporting non-Muslim bumiputras as Malays, banning the use of the word Allah by Christians,… etc, etc…
Islam is the official religion of Malaysia. Sarawak is part of Malaysia. Officially there is no state official religion. This is very clear.
On schools only being served Halal food, I think you must not associate it with official religion of the state. It is about respect to others. In my own children school, we made it a policy no beef is allowed. Not even beef burger because we respect the feelings of our Hindu brothers.
Bahasa Malaysia is the official language of Malaysia and it is not religion. Malay does not mean muslim.
On the issue related to the word Allah in publications, I agree it should not have happen. The government is wrong. They have viewed the matter from a microscopic view.
The way I see it despite the operational issue POA No 1 is still intact. There has not been any official declaration of any sort to say Islam or Christianity or Buddhisma is the state religion in Borneo. POA 1 has not been breached. You are not looking at it objectively. POA restriction does not apply to Islam but to all religion.
In Sarawak and Sabah, there has been no state religion thus far. Trust this clarifies
Lynn,
Worst still, please inform your statemen…., if they visit the Peninsular and die and they are not muslims…., their body will be place meant for corpses….., Muslim’s have dignity….their death are call Jenazah…., they have different compartments.
Five star treatment….., sampai Kapan pun rakyaat tanggung.
Just want to know …where we are heading…?
Just hope East Malaysian have eyes and not STUPID like what we consider so.
Doc Raffick,
Any one of us in these thread did look at POA 1 & 8. Do you NOT Find an UTTER NONSENSE and realized that had been breached and trampled by BN/UMNO.
If we Sarawakian and Sabahan CAN and AGREED for our Country to be made used of as a tool to the formation of Malaysian Federation, so why the need for them not to comply to the above POA instead of breaching it.
Thereby, the only available remedies we can see and hope for the rectification of the situation back to normal is by ejecting BN/UMNO and install PAKATAN RAKYAAT to power and with the promised of Full or Partial Autonomy will let us have of all what had been written in the POA during the pre formation of these Malaysian Nation.
Do all of us need to be told more!!!!
It takes two to tango. Both must perform the correct steps . Cannot just rely on one party while the other keep on complaining.
Why are you repeating your argument? If you want to change government its your right. But to claim full autonomy with reference to points of agreement and without referring to our consti is preposterous. I have even challenge and impugne your integrity on this approach but todate you have not been able to defend yourself. If you want to convince others to support pr give reasons. but don’t base it on points of agreement and full autonomy without referencing to our consti. Otherwise as I said earlier you’re perpetrating false statement, lies and in fact being deceitful.
Save this for 27/12…., we will trash this out.
Ellese,
The 18 points agreement (in respect of Sarawak) and the 20 points agreement (in respect of Sabah) were the basis for Sarawak and Sabah agreement to and participation in the formation of Malaysia.
It is the spirit of the law, so to speak, and the full meaning and intention of the law (or in this case, the provision of our constitution) cannot be correctly determined without reference to the basis.
You keep on saying one should respect the constitution and this is exactly what the East Malaysians are demanding. Respect the constitution and respect it fully i.e with full recognition of what the provisions originally intended.
You’re new here. Don’t want to repeat. Please read below in particular relationship btw POA and the consti. Please also read on how to interpret statute. If too complicated, read how to interpret normal contract. You always read the contract first. If unclear, then we refer to extrinsic evidence for intent. please note that certain points in POA agreed not to be pursued by north borneon and Sarawak leaders then.
Ellese,
Since when did you become season here..?
You seem to act the GURU that know’s all…., high time we become your stupid Disciple’s.
Count me out…!
Wils’wak,
Anyway …., East Malaysian’s have only to blame themselves,….. just plain stupidity.
Elect idiot’s who care the Hell for the rakyaat,…only to enrich themself’s….., and fall into the trap of UMNO…
Now all you can do East Malaysian’s is to Curse your previous leader’s …., for there is nothing you can do…, ” no point crying over spill milk.”
Just try salvaging…whatever you still have…., but not ” BOSTON TEA PARTY ” like another crook who will even sell himself….., a stone that gathers no moss but shit.
Nice one balasi
Hehe.
Doc, I have picked you as my Friday Guest Blogger. No problem I hope.
OK.. Tqvm
We, East Malaysian want to be an equal partner in nation-building, not be expected to passively accept crumbs and be thankful.” Dr. Jeffery Kitingan
That is very clear indeed to all of us who keep on questioning the right of Sarawakian & Sabahan for full autonomy. Look at
the following POA – Do you find anything wrong with it!!!!
POA No. 1. Trampling on Religion by BN/UMNO
POA NO. 8 – Full Borneosation of the State and Federal Civil Service in Sabah and Sarawak.
So, the Party who can guarantee us the Full Autonomy, after the Election, will be the one who will get our Votes. And that is for sure. No Question about it.
Majority of voters are a gullible lot, mee segera is enough. These are the people that you have to blame as they do not value their votes.
Why are you putting false statement one after another. Why are you being blind and selective to facts and a blind follower.
Don’t understand why you can’t do a bit of reading to find out the truth. Don’t understand why you cannot read the constitution.
Let’s go point by point.
Point one of POA:
“While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in North Borneo, and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to North Borneo”
now what does our consti say:
article 161e states:
“(2) No amendment shall be made to the Constitution without the concurrence of the Yang di-Pertuan Negeri of the State of Sabah or Sarawak or each of the States of Sabah and Sarawak concerned, if the amendment is such as to affect the operation of the Constitution as regards any of the following matters:
…..
(d) religion in the State, the use in the State or in Parliament of any language and the special treatment of natives of the State;”
this is the law as it. The 20 points were argued by north Borneo (Sabah) and Sarawak then with the British to be incorporated into our consti and it is already incorporated in our consti. So how the hell you reach your conclusion?
Now if your Sabah and Sarawak legislative houses amend your own consti it’s your faultlah. Don’t blame other people you fool. Btw as far as I know Sarawak consti has not been amended. (You do your own research on Sabah and Sarawak consti to debate here)
if you cannot prove otherwise, don’t assert a lie here.
Point 8 of the 20 points states:
“Borneanisation of the public service should proceed as quickly as possible”.
Where does is it say full. I told you already there are two civil service. One is state civil service and the other is federal. For state if you want 1000% local it’s up to you. It’s already control by you. But for federal service we should have more integration and mixes and allow east Malaysian to rise higher than state positions. So what’s wrong with this.
So unless you can argue otherwise, this is lie no 2. There is no request on full borneonization.
Btw both Sabah and Sarawak agreed not to have this demand in our consti. (there’s none in our consti but stand corrected) . So don’t come up with nebulous argument. Worse don’t parrot politician without using your thinking cap.
You forgot one thing….., the influx of immigrants and they have become instant Malays , thanks to a Indian Keling like you.
Views from Jeffrey Kitingan as reported in Malaysiakini today:
‘Sabah, Sarawak people feel cheated’
“Feeling cheated sums up the widespread feeling the people of Sabah and Sarawak have towards Malaysia.”
We were assured, Jeffrey said, that the end of British rule in 1963 would not mean the exchange of one form of colonialism for another.
Unfortunately, “the very thing that we feared”, was what precisely happened, he said. “First Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman’s vow that he was no colonialist remains as meaningless today as it was back then in 1963.”
As a major case in point, he said, was Putrajaya’s imposition of proxy rule in the two Malaysian Borneo states.
This was done by disenfranchising the native majority and marginalising them, he said.
“Putrajaya’s modus operandi in Sabah and Sarawak since 1963 has been to thrust leaders on the people. Genuine leaders of the people are criminalised, demonised, dehumanised, neutralised, isolated, marginalised and eliminated, if not exterminated.”
Putrajaya’s proxies in Kota Kinabalu and Kuching, Jeffrey added, have the licence to do what they liked, as long as they delivered the parliamentary seats to the ruling elite, kept the native majority hopelessly divided and ensured that the two states remained within Malaysia.
He said that this day, Dec 16, was chosen as it also marked the anniversary of the 1773 Boston Tea Party, which culminated in the independence of the 13 colonies of the fledgling United States of America from Great Britain.
“We want self-determination. It is our right,” thundered Jeffrey. “We want to be respected and not be an afterthought of the federation or in the constitution. We want to be a partner in nation-building, not be expected to passively accept crumbs and be thankful.”
Habib,
If I understand Pairin (the master flogger of Malaysia), even PR should stay out of Sabah and Sarawak, otherwise it would be another case of rule by proxy!
This is another politician that have no back bone whatsoever! When he was the nominee for org semenanjung (either BN or PR) in Sabah, what did he do? Wasn’t he doing the very same thing he is now complaining about?
When I read your article I was thinking why you want to burn the bridge and make yourself a sitting duck. Just look at what is going on now. Take great care of what you say, I really hope you won’t land in court like Muhammad Shafee Abdullah and RPK.
Many are arguing for nothing. Not only is it improbable to reform the federal government let alone a change of government. So keep on dreaming guys!
Lee’s Singapore was unceremoniously booted from Malaysia in 1965 without the consent of Sabah and Sarawak as supposedly equal founding partners in the Federation of Malaysia.
The continuous misgivings over the eviction of Singapore by then Sabah Chief Minister Donald Stephens and his college Sarawak CM Stephen Ningkan led to both leaders being disposed off their CM-ships by first Prime Minister Tunku Abdul Rahman.
Lee had been reported by some sources as being instrumental in persuading Sabah Kadazan leader Donald Stephens to change his stance and back the formation of Malaysia in 1963 between the Federation of Malaya, Singapore, Sabah and Sarawak.
Stephens and his supporters were initially preferred autonomy to be under Australian overseer tutorage and Commonwealth protectorate until 1965 when many Colombo Plan scholars would have graduated to take over posts vacated by British officers under a Borneonization of the civil service.
Borneonization of the civil service however never happened. The latest federal statement that 47% of all heads of department in the state are Sabahans however omits to mention that they are all Muslim Bumiputeras.
helang,
do you get your fact right? do you ever heard mineral & geoscience department? do you know who the director? go see the their website. shame on you.
agree with you paloi.
if it hasn’t changed, Alex yan is the head of the agency.
Helang just quoted the article from FMT (I think).
But the bigger picture here is that only 47% are locals when the 20 point agreement specifically calls for complete ‘Borneonization’
Please note there is no demand on complete borneonization of the civil service. Point 8 states:
‘Borneanisation of the public service should proceed as quickly as possible’.
We need to distingush between state civil service and federal civil service. Do you have statistics of borneonization of both civil service to give a better understanding?
I have no issue for positions to be filled up by locals but for the federal civil service there should be more mixing and intergration. After all east malaysians must be afforded opportunities to aspire higher to federal positions.
I don’t regard filling up federal posts in state as giving more autonomy. They are after all subject to federal direction and control in the final analisis. State under the law and our consti still fo not have power to decide.
If you look at the constitution please note this point 8 was not a stated therein. There are provisions on judiciary, natives, native land etc but there is none on this. Why ? Its a position they (east and west malaysians) have negotiated.
You don’t even know how people squeeze Balls to get what they inspire…? Do you .., The East Malaysian’s are stark naked ….due to their own follies…, why cry foul now…?
Please E.M. safe whatever you can if not …you have sold the soul of generations of your family.
Never trust UMNO…., its not the UMNO …..you and I knew. Its full of SHIT….., and just like E-Coli.
They have strayed…..and it will take years to regenerate…., so vote wisely….., dont vote a old cock.
Just like Confusious said ” Marrying Young Bride is like buying book for other people to read, ”
A Stupid Chief Minister…..so got his priorities all wrong.
September 17, 2010, Friday
KOTA KINABALU: Top leaders from Pakatan Rakyat (PR) have pledged to grant autonomy to Sabah if the opposition coalition comes to power in the country.
Nasarudin (front, left), Anwar (front, second left) and Kit Siang (front, third left) holding the PR banner.
Nasarudin (front, left), Anwar (front, second left) and Kit Siang (front, third left) holding the PR banner.
PKR de factor leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang and Nasharudin Mat Isa of PAS also said a PR coalition government would also accord political independence to Sabah.
They made the pledge during a special gathering here on Wednesday, the eve of Malaysia Day where they formally launched the Pakatan Sabah.
The inception of Pakatan Sabah, said Anwar, marked the start of granting Sabah full autonomy to manage itself within Malaysia, a demand that Malaysians in Sabah have relentlessly been making since gaining independence 47 years ago in 1963.
“Sabah affairs will be determined by Sabah,” he said, adding that the coalition would not in any way condone nor tolerate abuse of power or corrupt practice.
He also said Pakatan is committed to defending the constitutional rights of all Malaysians, unlike the Umno-led Barisan Nasional coalition which is still defending the NEP, which essentially benefits only a certain race or ethnic group in the country.
Anwar also cautioned the people of the worsening political and socio-economic situation in the country under the 53 years of BN rule.
“The people have the voice and power …our understanding is not race but justice for all,” he said.
You’re new here. Why are you repeating the same article? The comments are as per below. This is full of political doublespeak. the logic is inconsistent. The constitutional rights of all malaysians that pr is saying is that each state has it’s own limited powers. ( this is clearly embedded). Isn’t this in antithesis to full autonomy said earlier.
Politicians like these mislead people. How come there is no Malaysian first here?
Ellese,
The ‘Malaysian First’ slogan has been practiced in Sabah and Sarawak for years, albeit on a slightly different form.
Where I come from, all of the inhabitants are sabahans first before they are Suluk, Kadazan, etc. It’s a practice that we been doing for years.
And when we are overseas, we are malaysians first, Sabahan second and then our respective tribes. Honestly, it’s only people in the Peninsula who needs to be indoctrinated with that.
And if I may, and I apologize in advance but you are as ignorant of Sabah and its people as you are an expert in the Malaysian contituion.
Just saying.
You mistook me. Malaysian first and state full autonomy doesn’t jive. If all states were given full autonomy there’s nothing left of Malaysia. Each one of us will say I’m sabahan, sarawakian, kelantanese, etc first then Malaysia.
I don’t understand why many commentators here keep on going back to 18 point agreement especially when the Federal Constitution has overridden the agreement.
To put it simply to everyone, the 18 point agreement in relation to matrimonial matters, the terms agreed between both families during the “majlis bertunang”. When the couple get married, the “Surat Taklik” takes precedence over everything agreed earlier. In our present case is the Federal Constitution.
If the groom/bride after 47 years of marriage keep on referring to the agreement made during bertunang and disregarding the nuptial agreement (Surat Taklik), there is something really wrong by that party or whoever that instigates one party to do so.
So my advice to the couple is to only refer to the Surat taklik and disregard those who instigates the wife to go back to the bertunang terms. Clearly those who instigate the wife is only interested to bed the wife and not really having the wife’s interest at heart!
Good anology.
ServiceB4Self,
You talk cock…., and you assume everything is Islamic…, Bro…., sedarlah…, kita kan rakyaat berbilang kaum.
Religion is a FARCE,…..only meant for guy’s who know how to practice it…not guys who throw their weights around.
I assume you are One Najib Character,,?
Balasi,
Aiyooo, of course lah I use Islamic marriage as an analogy for I am a Muslim. What is important is the analogy.
I supposed the more apt analogy is a Catholic marriage, you may still have the agreement made during engagement and the nuptials but more importantly you are not allowed to use condoms and no divorce! Either the couple have to abstain to prevent more children or the poor wife have to continuously be pregnant. (no disrespect to Catholics, please tell me whether I am wrong for my knowledge of your religion may be limited)
Balasi now, do you appreciate the analogy? I suppose your Supreme and Beloved Eternal God Given Leader might be able to explain to you better, especially on the part of not using the condom ……. Hahahahahah!
ServiceB4Self,
Hahahahhah….Bahalol..,
How can I appreciate your analogy…, when you got my religion wrong…?
Bahalol….., I don’t even believe the First Tenet of our RUKUN NEGARA…!
For me God is omipotent….a force ….some sought of energy….. not some wise guy’s saying things and collabrated over time. For me this is just about ” HEARSAY ”
By the way ….why don’t you go teach your kind on proper usage of the CONDOM…
From 2000 till 2008 ….there were 150,000 odd Children born out of WEDLOCK among the MUSLIM’s…., most teenagers and single women below the age of 22.
Bahalol…., you just made yourself a laughing stalk…..,
Your last Para….., made you look a
” PARIAH of THE HIGHEST ORDER ”
For me ….., even if I offend other’s on this, I would say shaft your believe up your Rear.
-cont-
You should go look for a new agama teaher to brush up your knowledge on your religion.
Even though I don’t believe in your’s , I still feel a bit more knowledge of ” HEARSAY ” will do you a world of good.
Then ….you can participate like a Idiot, like me.
Balasi,
It just stumps me how dense some ppl can be. Thank god the are PKR members I suppose.
I have concluded you don’t know the meaning of “analogy”. Therefore I can’t be angry with an ignoramus. The fault lies with your parents.
I supposed there is no point to try to elaborate the principle, I don’t have the ability to lower myself to such incredulously low level of intellect. The fault is definitely mine.
LOL!
ServiceB4Self,
Stump you..? are you joking..!
Knowing the meaning of analogy..?
Blame my teachers ….in S.A.B., but they were never your kind.
Sorry…the figure should be 259,000 ….babies.., someone SMS me on this just ask IKIM.
Talk about ignoramus.., I’m neighter one nor am I a arrogant idiot. You blame my parent’s..?
You should not only blame your parent’s you should blame your whole generation….., Curse on you from a Kafir Laghnat.!
Engaging you is a waste of time but please ponder on the figures…, since Abang AK ,,,said have some decorum..,
I will sign off as take care BRO.
Balasi,
Hahahahahahaha! I seemed to have struck a raw nerve.
So the agnostic Balasi have feelings afterall. Typical PKR fashion, PKR can say all sort of things about others even if it is down right rude and lies, but others can’t do it to them. And like PKR when they can’t respond to an issue, they try to raise other issues to cloud the issue (eg. Issue on Constitution or POA taking precedence and raising issues on single mothers from a particular religion. I just can’t understand the connection)
Taking a leaf from RPK’s blog – “Macamana nak perentah kerajaan???”
If you want decorum, please exhibit it first.
You call decorum…..you mean etiquitte…., you are addresing a wrong person….
You blast a religion for no reason and then suggest…., you are a saint like your religion…, Bro..
Go check out the figures…., don’t say its out of context…, in a forum everything gets tangel up.
Kena pandai kait…., kalau tidak, mana nak tangkap ikan. Bro B.
Bro Balasi,
Kalau u baca baik-baik and not jump to conclusion and being an ANALOGY, manalah I hentam mana-mana religion!
Catholics are not allowed to be divorced and no condoms are allowed! If I am wrong, I did caveat that I am very willing to be corrected!
Do elaborate how your points connect? Probably your “rocket science” intellect just escapes me.
Balasi,
To his his own but still have decorum, bro.
Abang AK,
Sorry…, the time was late just got back from work…., just thought issue needed to be clarified in such manner.
Maaf again.
ServiceB4Self
(no disrespect to Catholics, please tell me whether I am wrong for my knowledge of your religion may be limited)
Balasi now, do you appreciate the analogy? I suppose your Supreme and Beloved Eternal God Given Leader might be able to explain to you better, especially on the part of not using the condom ……. Hahahahahah!
So based on your statement above I wrote to tell you to go teach your Muslim girls and single parent girls on the use of the CONDOM them we will not have 30.000 babies born out of wedlock and teenage sex every year.
Bro need not be a rocket scientist.
Just have common sense…you post something on condom’s with realishing the problem’s facing young muslims / malay girls.. ( Teach them to use the Condom’s ,give it to them for free )
Raffick – be careful of what you say here.
It doesn’t augur well for you, if you cannot produce what your arguments are based on- and people will say that you write what they call “Utter Nonsense”!!
I say that because I challenge you to produce the 18 point agreement before you even mention about Sarawak’s status in Malaysia, and call Autonomy- Utter NONSENSE!!!!
Cheers, mate!
Let’s see whose making non sense.
You allege in your posting:
“Some people forget that Sabah & Sarawak aren’t “states” as defined in the Federal Constitution”
our consti says:
“Article 1
The Federation shall be known, in Malay and in English, by the name Malaysia.
The States of the Federation shall be Johore, Kedah, Kelantan, Malacca, Negri Sembilan, Pahang, Penang, Perak, Perlis, Sabah, Sarawak, Selangor and Terengganu.”
we have since 1963 treated Sabah and Sarawak on equal footing with other states in Malaysia ( save for some special provisions). Your contention that that Sabah and Sarawak is a different footing from other states are just non sense.
Please also be informed throughout our consti, ‘state’ has been empowered rights and obligations. Whenever a state is referred to in our consti it must include Sabah and Sarawak. Otherwise Sabah and Sarawak have very limited rights compared with other states.
Article 160 states as follows:
“State” means a State of the Federation.
Thus at no instance Sabah and Sarawak is treated separately.
I have found a new article by an eminent constitutional jurist, Shad faruqi, arguing on the same line.
“SEPTEMBER 16 will be Malaysia Day – the day Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore united with the Federation of Malaya to constitute the new Federation of Malaysia.
The impulses that led to this union and the determined opposition from Indonesia, the Philippines and the state of Kelantan to the birth of the new federation, provide a fascinating tapestry of history.
Forty-seven years after the merger, many interesting questions linger about the transformation of Malaya into Malaysia.
Effect of merger: Did Sept 16, 1963, mark the birth of the new nation of Malaysia or did it simply record the expansion of an existing state that had already met its tryst with destiny on Aug 31, 1957?
In 1963, did Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore federate with Malaya as the 12th, 13th and 14th states of the federation or did they bring about something more revolutionary by transforming Malaya into a radically different federation of four regions – Malaya, Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore?
Whatever the political rhetoric may be, the legal answer is clear. Article 1(2) of the Federal Constitution states that Malaysia consists of 13 and not three regions.
The addition in 1963 of three new states and the adoption of a new name did not entail an overthrow of the 1957 Merdeka Constitution whose core features and structures continued to supply the chart and compass for the expanded federation.
The peninsular states retained their individuality and did not get absorbed into a single West Malaysian entity.”
So cruzeiro your argument is moot and baseless. The answer you seek is already stated in our consti. Why people can’t refer to it is baffling.
i love the manner ellese bashes up someone over in cyberspace. perhaps, arrogance is not permitted in here.
cheers to you again ellese.
Thanks for the cynicism. Anyway I find it exasperating that people don’t even want to read the constitution but yet postulate a position saying others are non sense.
He states to dr:
It doesn’t augur well for you, if you cannot produce what your arguments are based on- and people will say that you write what they call “Utter Nonsense”!!
When I ask him to refer to the constitution he said:
‘What are you talking about?
What is in the constitution?’
I believe there are good debates on Sarawak and Sabah but almost all disregard what we’ve agreed in our constitution. To me the conception of full autonomy being imbued in the public is wrong and goes beyond the acceptable limits. Il tone down if we argue within limits.
he is only a doctor and not a lawyer. so, in a way, he is not smart after all. arrogant and i have seen him many times. he is not in my books!
Oettinger
We have met once for 3 minutes where you suppose to join Balasi, Dr Amrit, Sinaran, AK for lunch but you disappeared.
We have net met since. Appreciate if you tell the truth.
Doc,
I rasa, Oettinger is refering to Cruzeiro and not to you. Cruz is also a doctor.
Oettinger,
You are a born loser…., , some guy that talks to himself because….he has non to talk.
What gave you the courage to say in this blog that you have seen him many times…, and he is not in your books…?
CHUT….., forget about your Grandfather been the Founding Member of Gerakan…, You are just about SHIT….., you are not even a practicing Muslim…., you only talk Cock.
I’ve not met you…., but they have….., you know Dr. Amrit’s conclusion about you..?
The guy seems sick.., he’s restless…., he just disappeared.., ( You Oetingger ) the arsehole.
Don’t stir ,…..when you don’t even know us.?
Stick with your Broom.
Oettinger,
Telajak perahu bolih undur…, telajak kata buruh padahnya.
Your call…, be precise in future…., no harm done, but then again it’s your call..?
You need not explain..?
Ok- Your argument “sounds” credible.
Granted that it states that literally- but it will only make sense with a simplistic & literal understanding of those words- much like what is prevalent today.
The question remains- does it actually mean that literally? Or does that mean that it is correct?
Should it have “equal standing” with the “states of Malaya” on all aspects?
I’m not so sure – I’m no legal eagle, nor do I pretend to be one. In fact, even legal minds tend to argue about the same words in different settings.
You may or may not be a legal mind – it doesn’t matter. What matters is that you (and I) understand the spirit in which the constitution is written.
You may think that when you read the constitution literally – you actually articulate what it means – but you’re mistaken, if you do not understand the spirit in which those words were framed.
More than that – it is vital to understand the generalities in which the Constitution is framed, and the reason for that generality.
In Malaysia though – they seem to read things literally, and want specifics in the constitution – so much so, they have to define a race through religion.
The fallacy is quite obvious- but to twisted minds, they’re truths cast in stone.
This is exactly the problem with many things Malaysian – what has created so much confusion & turned the “Federal Constitution”, into what many eminent legal minds call “toilet paper” by many politicians & the pseudo-intellectual simpletons who ape them.
Many think it is so cool to quote Shad Faruqi on all things legal/constitutional. Although I agree that he’s a very nice man and a great legal mind, he can be wrong too. He is the one who once said that the “Social Contract” spoken of by Umno, “is in the Federal Constitution” only to “rearticulate” himself as to what he meant …..
Very sad that despite all your words, you still cannot produce the 18-point agreement ….. the context & spirit in which the Federal Constitution should be read- or else it would be pointless to go on with this debate.
Have it your way, if that is what you want.
Say what you like – all your arguments are worthless if you cannot furnish this one request, just so that we know the context, principle & spirit in which the Fed Consti should be .
- Dr Cooray, in “The Australian Achievement: From Bondage To Freedom” wrote:-
“All persons (individuals, institutions and government) are subject to law.
Supremacy of the law is a fundamental concept in the western democratic order. The rule of law requires both citizens and governments to be subject to known and standing laws. The supremacy of law also requires generality in the law. This principle is a further development of the principle of equality before the law. Laws should not be made in respect of particular persons. As Dicey postulated, the rule of law presupposes the absence of wide discretionary authority in the rulers, so that they cannot make their own laws but must govern according to the established laws. Those laws ought not to be too easily changeable. Stable laws are a prerequisite of the certainty and confidence which form an essential part of individual freedom and security. Therefore, laws ought to be rooted in moral principles, which cannot be achieved if they are framed in too detailed a manner.
The idea of the supremacy of law requires a definition of law (to which the above principles may go some way). This must include a distinction between law and executive administration and prerogative decree. A failure to maintain the formal differences between these things must lead to a conception of law as nothing more than authorisation for power, rather than the guarantee of liberty, equally to all.
The rule of law ensures that individuals have a secure area of autonomy and have settled expectations by having their rights and duties pre-established and enforced by law.”
It is truly sad that we cannot have legal minds to subcribe to this perspective …
With that, I’m done.
Thanks for the feedback.
It’s been good.
Cheers!
oettinger – thanks for the compliments.
you have seen me?
sorry to say, I don’t know you- nor do i recall anything of substance from you, for that matter.
cheers.
So much had been said about the Autonomy for Sarawak, by all the brilliants guys and gals of the nation. I really appreciate that, some are logic indeed and were discuss intellectually as well also. However there are other who are out of despair do fired from their hip and it is not nice for me to point out who they are, but they should knows themselves by then. Anyway that is the deal we have to accept when we are in the firing line.
Let me response to ex- Capt. Dr. Raffick, I knows him when he served in the Medical Corps and if I am not mistaken he was serving in Sabah in Sarawak in the late 80′s to the early 90′s. Well done doc, you had served the nation as what I done as well. I was also serving as a Junior officer in the Ranger Corps (early 70′s to the mid 80′s)and had been traversing the Virgin Jungle into the Deep Terrain, the High Mountain, fast flowing rivers and the stinking swamp fighting for the safety and security of Malaysian nation.
It took 47 years for the Malaysian Federation, for a Non Muslim Sarawakian to be accorded just one Brigadier General by the name of Stephen Mundaw from Pakit in Sri Aman. Don’t tell me that, all Sarawakian Military Officers are stupid and idle and they don’t deserved any promotion to the much higher rank in the Military. It seem for those who are staying longer, their future had been destined to be a doom and just buying time out only. At least the PDRM are doing much better.bravo to you all guys and gals.
In the Civil Service, look at the distribution of the DG in each Department. Take for one example, when Najib was the Minister of Education, one simple soul Sarawakian was appointed to become the DG of Education,(MATNOR DAIM) but he was removed with no reason given, just because he is not a Malayan Malay but Sarawakian.
Why created a precedent of such a standard?
I am responding to Cruzeiro for the 20 POA or whatever POA he wants. The content of the said POA is similar to that of the what is written for Sabah, since these 2 states help to form the Malaysian Federation, simultaneously. I don’t need the 100 bucks that he bet on here, but what I want to know are the following responses from him and it goes as follows:-
1. Can the Honorable Mr. Cruzeiro, tell me which part of the 20 POA had NOT been breached and had been COMPLIED by the Federal BN/UMNO Gov’t in Sarawak and Sabah. (Look for that in the net)
2. If there is a breached and non complied, what rectification had been done to bring it back to normal.
(2 lines is enough for him to digest it out into the open)
3. I will point out which line had been BREACHED and NOT Complied with.
CONCLUSION –
All had been done with a SHORT CHANGE to the Sarawakian and the Sabahan for the last 47 Years. So why not we Vote for PR, if they are to give us a better freedom and choice of life, because BN/UMNO will never be able to do it after all. Definitely not all the green are a good pastures, but at least it will give us hope into the future, which we knows very well much in advance. So my choice of Government for Sarawak after the next election will be that of the PR and no more for the BN/UMNO.
I think you have deviated from the issue substantially which is the usage of the word autonomy and the fact that you prefer sarawak for sarawakian and semenanjung for semenanjung. You also claim that Semenanjung people take but do not give!
Btw I retired as Maj Dr (Rtd) after 12 years because I could not support with my family with a salary of RM 3000. On principle reasons I dont do private practice as I dont believe in making money from the sick. I have been and currently employed within the Takaful/Insurance industry
Dear Orang Swk,
1. Firstly allow me to say that I never disputed the existence of such an agreement as the 18 Point Agreement.
2. Secondly, I never disputed that the BN Govt (from Semenanjung & consequently, Sabah/Sarawak) reneged on it wholesale.
4. It my humble opinion, that it would take an ignoramus of titanic proportions not to see that Sabah & Sarawak have been shortchanged bigtime.
5. But as the say “Opinions are like A%$holes – everyone has one” – and hence the so does the ignoramus.
6. I was simply pointing out the level of ignorance prevalent in this thread, wherein some participant actually believed in the tall tale (by Umno propaganda machinery & education) that Singapore, Sabah & Sarawak “joined” the Federation of Malaysia as a “State”, and not as separate autonomus regions.
7. Some want to refer to “Arkib Negara” word, others want me to do my search at Wikipedia. Still others will give me links to the 20-Point Agreement with Sabah, and say “It is similar”, but cannot say why one is 18, while the other is 20.
8.So far nobody can come up with the 18-point agreement.
9. Little knowledge is dangerous knowledge.
10. That is dangerous!!
BTW – where does “Insurance” make its money from? Any guesses?
The answer is already in our constitution. You’re chasing a red herring. I cannot understand why you don’t want to refer to our constitution. It’s not a difficult read.
What are you talking about?
What is in the constitution?
cruzeiro,
This guy…, Ellese…., a lawyer no doubt…is a lawyer BURUK.
No point …arguing with him…., he love’s to win…
Anyway I awaiting a reply from some sources.., will post it on receiving it. Cheers.
I’m serious – I’ll fork out the RM100.00 for the person who can come up with the Sarawak’s 18-Point Agrement with the Govt of Malaya, towards becoming an equal partner (1 in 3) – not a state (as in 1 in 14)- of Malaysia.
Cruzeiro,
The following from Arkib Negara:
“…Pengisytiharan Malaysia dibuat ekoran daripada perjanjian pada 9 Julai 1963 antara Persekutuan Tanah Melayu, United Kingdom, Borneo Utara, Sarawak dan Singapura. Dengan termaktubnya perjanjian tersebut, negeri Sabah, Sarawak dan Singapura digabungkan dengan Persekutuan Tanah Melayu…”
Souce: http://www.arkib.gov.my/pemasyhuranmalaysia
Perhaps, you may want to contact them for the 18points agreement. Unless, you are of the view that such agreement do not exist. Good luck.
POA 18/20 is available on many sites on the internet. I believe wikipedia pun ada
Give me the link. Like I said – it has got to be the 18-point agreement, okay – not 20!
I don’t care what “arkib negara” said on their website.
I just want one of you to produce it!
Just look at the way some of the commentators here comment about Sarawak rights. Why is it becoming like this?
====================
Simple Raffick –
Some people forget that Sabah & Sarawak aren’t “states” as defined in the Federal Constitution – they joined the Federation of Malaya as equal partners with “Kuala Lumpur” to form Malaysia.
Some heroes here think that by being obnoxious in this thread and posting repeated nonsensical ideas based on “Umno-esque” rhetoric & ignorance, to belittle the 20/18 point agreement, as though it has been honoured by the BN govt, is a fine thing to do – now that is dangerous.
I’l bet RM100.00 here that nobody here can produce the 18-point Agreement with Sarawak in the next 24-hrs, and yet talk as though they know that it has been honoured.
(Don’t come around giving me the 20 POA with Sabah and say “it was the same thing”, okay).
Indeed – as someone said above – Little knowledge is a dnagerous thing” …. and “Shame” seems to be a very rare commodity among certain circles, it seems…..
You are dead wrong. Under our federal constitution Sabah and Sarawak is a state.
You seemed to be asserting unjustifiable vague position. I don’t reiterate umno’s position. I’m reiterating from our constitution. Please read.
Oh yeah? Where exactly, if I may ask …
OMG- Did say it was You who was being obnoxious? Or even about being “Umno-esque” …
Terasa ke … LOL!!
Interesting debate, perhaps we shall change the title to Autonomy – Nationalism, Democracy and Ask the Sarawakian.
Azmin may have chosen a wrong word. However, did he not say ‘PR will respect the Malaysia Agreement that was entered into at the formation of Malaysia in 1963’? Thus I personally don’t interpret ‘full autonomy’ have any implication of independence or secession. It is merely a suggestion that PKR will respect the self governance of Sarawakian. The crux of the argument is therefore does BN acted upon what they had agreed earlier on with Sarawak? Everyone can form their own opinion but the best person we shall ask is, of course, Sarawakian.
Does what had happened 50 and 100 years ago bear any relevancy to the subject? I think no unless we want to demonstrate our nationalism soul, but how far back shall we go in order to draw a lucid assessment and comparison? Kata kini wrote well to reveal the hypocrisy among us. Many Sarawakian talk exactly like the ultra here in peninsular, and Chinese like me don’t know laugh or cry reading comment that talk about West Malaysian contribution to Sarawak, we thought we are the only one that have to carry on the role to convince.
If we are truly democratic, ask the Sarawakian what they want, via referendum and poll, complement with freedom of press, speech and expression.
This is the reason why we should have limits. We are not moving forward at all but regressing all the times. When we should focus on integration we busy ourself with deepening the differences. Why? I cannot imagine.
Your method of referendum is also wrong. They have become part of us. So why shouldn’t we malaysians decide. We’ve already had an agreement. it’s totally unfair for one party to renege unilaterally.
The way forward is not referendum leading to seccession. After this then what? Penang has referendum to be independent? Johor next? What about Kelantan?
Thus this idea sowed by PR has no beneficial end and leads only to disintegration of Malaysia. This I will fight against to the very end.
Just look at the way some of the commentators here comment about Sarawak rights. Why is it becoming like this? It is because we have people like AA who will do resort to anything to gain position and power. Dangerous guy!
Agreeable. Am upset about all this. We can’t seem to move forward at all.
I thought we have agreed to keep out personalities.
The choice of words by is much to be desired. What right do we have to judge people as dumb, stupid, etc..
Do not be upset and don’t be despair either. Move on with a positive hope. Mahatma Ghandi moves mountain with his passive resistance.
drrafick,
I at time wonder how in the world a leader ‘ tainted ‘ with election irregularities and making mockery of a democracy can give ASSURANCE to Sarawakian that HE will GIVE autonomy.
How is this ACT is possible when ONE do not adore the principle of basic democracy by HIM and His party at large.
Bikin Tak Serupa Cakap – Cakap Tak Serupa Bikin.
SEEING DOUBLE?
Hua Yong,
In any particular jurisdiction/area/state, whether it is a residential association, district or state, you may be right in asking that the residents be given the right to decide.
In fact that is the very nature of democracy, once in 5 years, we go to the polls to vote our leaders to represent us in the parliament.
The issue is that Sarawak like many other states in Malaysia, do send their representatives whether to the state legislature and the parliament. Whether their representatives actually do their job is a different matter altogether.
However to propose a referendum to determine “autonomy” could mean to the extreme – secession or at best a variation of an agreement made with the federation that is now set forth in the Federal Constitution.
If there is non compliance by the Federal government as to the provision under the Constitution, shouldn’t the people of Sarawak seek their parliamentarian to query or debate the matter in Parliament?
I am aghast at AA’s suggestion for autonomy for Sarawak. I wonder why he didn’t propose the same for Penang and Selangor – afterall these two states contribute the biggest revenue to the Federal Government but in return don’t get the equivalent allocation. On the inverse, AA should also recommend that Kelantan or Perlis or Sabah should be ejected out of the Federation simply being a freeloader, contribution to the Federation is insignificant as compared to what the Federation allocates to the relevant state.
Bottomline the principle is wrong. I feel that it would lead to disintegration of Malaysia and it is very irresponsible on AA’s part to suggest this.
I suspect, it is just part and parcel of PKR modus operandi to perpetually create issues. Why can’t AA/PKR be like DAP and act like a responsible Malaysian political party? If something is wrong, oppose it but don’t create issues just to garner votes irrespective of the adverse effect on the nation.
It is for this very reason, I am certain which party I won’t vote for. I hope the other political parties don’t associate themselves with PKR otherwise, I would be forced to vote similarly against such party.
I definitely respect PAS for despite the adverse impact (especially on their relationship with DAP and perception of the non muslim voters) of announcing their affirmation to ensure the imposition of Islamic Law for Malaysia, they are principled enough to hold firm to their objectives.
Ellese / SB4S,
My apology, maybe my choice of words is as bad as Azmin. First of all, I have to admit that I can’t elaborate what ‘truly democratic’ is, thus the ‘if’. Second, when I said referendum, I am not at all relates this to independence and secession, my intention is to ask Sarawakian their opinion on what I had mentioned ‘does BN acted upon what they had agreed earlier on with Sarawak.’ I have no answer on method use for referendum, but I have reservation to tell it is wrong. If Hawaii wants independence, shall we ask Hawaiian or American? Does Hawaiian have the rights to grudge if USA acts bias and prejudice?
Dear hua yong,
the first thing you must realise is that the 20 points were then negotiated into our constitution. Most of them becomes part of our constitutionsl provisions. There are special division on Sabah and sarawak rights. The federal parliament cannot amend unless the state consent has been obtained. But some were not and this we must take cognizant. Parties decide as part of give n take not to pursue or provide legal backing over it.
Now what if people are not happy with the implementation or breach of the Sabah n Sarawak protected constitutional rights? You don’t do referendum. You sue the federal government. There are already cases where the state has sued the federal government. our Constituion provide that the mechanics to resolve this dispute is through courts.
After reading all the comments I find that many have failed to understand what we have agreed upon and fail to realise the implication of what they are saying.
We must realise that we have all agreed to be bound by an agreement called our constitution. Many things happen prior to that. The cobold agreement, the 20 points etc etc. if you want to back before the law of the land was Islamic law and there was British judicial notice on this. Irrespective of such things what essentially happen now is that all of us have come to an agreement.
That agreement is what we call our constitution. Once agreed we can’t rely on previous history disregarding the terms that we have reached. Thus a sultan who used to have wide powers before the British came cannot now wants to go back to pre British history to claim he has full executive power to rule and declare an autonomous state with him as an absolute ruler. So too the family of rajah Brooke. These are antecedent events superceded by events and agreement. in other words these have been superceded by our agreement ie our constitution.
Now all states prior to that we’re haggling with powers and jurisdictions but come the constitution we all have agreed that all states powers be enumerated in a state list which forms part of our constitution. The federal powers in federal list. And joint powers in concurrent list. This is the balance that we have agreed that for Malaysia to move forward and the manner we conduct ourself. Our first and primary goal was to put malaysia’s interest first and then to the state. Under this structure I will argue we have achieved tremendous success and peaceful period (save for a blip or two).
Now to be autonomous under plain definition would require the state to have more powers. In other words you would need to amend the constitution. autonomous means more independence and you need more power. If you don’t amend our constitution, then in no way in the same breath you can argue you want more autonomy. Thus my previous statement that autonomy and federal constitution are actually oxymonoronic.
I hear that some are not happy with the state administration ie BN ( partisanship again!!!). The remedy for this does not lie in law. it does not require amendments to our constitution. The remedy is thus not and cannot be autonomy. The remedy is simple. The democratic right to change the government. If one is unhappy and if it’s the majority’s view, there will be change in the state government. But don’t and you should never argue in particular when you do not have the majority, in order to get vote, introduce the idea of autonomy, independence and cessation. This is wrong fullstop. It’s also dangerous as it may lead to violence and war as history has shown. There’s no benefit to pursue. Instead we should forge ahead to intergrate and think Malaysia first.
What AUTONOMY:- Self-Governed, why can’t Sarawak and Sabah do that, are the people taken for granted not educated. They are not of the Peninsula (land). Sarawak and Sabah are majority Christians and Pagans and RICH COUNTRIES: Timber, Oil and Gas. Why fuss about IT Drrafick. DOLLARS and AUTHOURIAN. AUTONOMY can be expressed in many words. Tongue can be sharped than
razor-blade when words are mis-intepretted.
Let’s just call it ‘Borneanisation’
Just to clarify a few facts – It’s 20 and 18 points for Sabah and Sarawak respectively.
I agree, Azmin should clarify to the public but I do know that what he meant here is, at least the priority, to ensure that all government agencies – Immigration, JPN, et al – are headed by the local peeps.
I’m not sure about Sarawak but in Sabah, the head of such agencies – the major ones – are still from Semenanjung. I think it’s the least PR could and should do immediately should they win.
Two of the contentions that would take time – if ever they are solved which I personally think is highly unlikely – are the State Finance and Education points. These are really hard to implement given the current circumstances.
As much as I want BN to be booted out in Sabah, realistically, only a PBS pull out can make that happen.
Hello Doc Raffick,
I saw your hand are totally full and some of the replies are out of topics as well. Whereby initially it was about the AUTONOMY and it spread to all corners of the Malaysian World. I do believe in all what had been said about the subject, but just couldn’t agreed to all of threat.
Dr R- We are talking about Azmin autonomy and what it meant!
This is especially about the treatment given to we Sarawakian. Look at Taib Mahmud mismanagement of the State Finance and obviously he was not even caution and far from being touch by the Federal Power of what had happen either. This is obviously known to us, that the Federal are playing the Favoritism, Nepotism and family game. And they are having a closed family ties as well.
Dr R-Mismanagement happens in every corner of Malaysia. CM Taib has proven himself to be corrupted many times over. It is you and the rest of people in Sarawak must take action against him. This has got nothing to do with UMNO or Autonomy.
If Azmin’s promised are considered a treason of the highest order and through your TLV (Threshold Limit Value) of Treason interpretation, then how are you going to interpret Najib threat to the nation, that ” If BN CANNOT win than nobody can Win”.
Dr R- What Najib said is WRONG! If Azmin says autonomy and by it he means it by the normal meaning of autonomy, it is TREASON. Both are wrong. Najib threat can land him in court if you can prove that he said it with the meaning as a threat where he will create chaos if other party wins
Can you tell us about this one as well and how are you going to look at it. Is it just a child play or another Treason of the Highest Order.
Dr R- I read your earlier demands and still waiting which part of the Malaysian agreement has been breached. You forgot that there is a cost of maintaining military and police presence in Sarawak for the security of the people there. You have no idea the number of Mercy Flights that I did in in 1989/1990 from Labuan in all corners of Sabah and Sarawak to serve the poor down there and I find nauseating when I read your comment. You sounded as if Peninsular Malaysians took everything away from Sarawak and give nothing in return. We live in one nation. As one nation we have one common law. There is Federal and there is State Government. If Sarawakians feels that the oil royalty that they get from Petronas is not enough, go back and renegotiate. Here the state get 5% without spending any cost in exploring oil field, drilling, processing and distribution. If 5% is not enough, renegotiate. Making your kind of demand is not acceptable especially when have not proven that Peninsular people took things away from you.
I have save countless live of Sarawakians in that 2 years I was there. I have almost died from Helicopter emergency landing while going to provide Aeromedical evacuation. I GIVE and TAKE NOTHING FROM YOU!
Your earlier comments earns my displeasure
Over to you Doc.
drrafick,
Your last para ( answer ) i so much true. Manusia Mudah Lupa.
Do this fella know how many life and limbs of our soldiers and policemen and also border security ” LOST ” in safeguarding Sarawak and Sabah people security from communist insurgency and pirates.
We agree there are some kind of shortage of ” developement ” due to national financial limitation. But to say BLUNTLY that the national government DID NOT or ABANDON the necessary development in both state.
One must always bear in mind that the ” THREAT CLAIM FROM OTHER GOVERNMENT ” due to historical reason are still imminent, And on this issues for both state , the national government and it leaders from DAY ONE fought diplomatic war to this day.
As usual everyone talk about individual state and it own cultures BUT never a second give a serious thought on NATIONAL INTERGRATION and what it take ( process) to be intergrated nationally.
For our bro info, how big and top post one penisular guy hold in that state, they are not there happily BUT as to do their job as a national government servant.
One must see the truth of ” EVENTS” which took place in both state that ” warrant” the KEY post to be hold by the Federal employees. One such thing should be metion is Sabah For Sabahan , now Sarawak for Sarawakian next will be Kelantan for Kelantanese, Kedah for Kedahan, Penang for Penangites and so on so forth. Is it healthy for National Intergration?
Politician talk first and think later. The Rakyat must think first and do later. Rather be late in the RACE then never for we cares more about our childrens future and security.
Dear Orang Swk,
You wrote, “CM Taib has proven himself to be corrupted many times over. It is you and the rest of people in Sarawak must take action against him. This has got nothing to do with UMNO or Autonomy.”
Many, would not agree. We had PM Tunku Abdul Rahman sack Sarawak CM Stephen Kalong Ningkan. We also have the renewed Anti-Corruption Agency, the notorious MACC.
Likewise, “You have no idea the number of Mercy Flights that I did in in 1989/1990 from Labuan in all corners of Sabah and Sarawak to serve the poor down there and I find nauseating when I read your comment.” Hey, fly boy you were paid handsomely for all those tasks. Why, you have the option of doing something else, so, don’t bleat.
Protect us your Malay ONLY regiments ? You have been in Sarawak over two years you say, o.k. Labuan, met the fame Sarawak Rangers and the awesome Police Field Force ? Check what they think of these Malay only regiments and their courage levels….?
As for, Ellese, the Constitution of Malaysia ? How many hundreds of times had that been changed?
Sarawak and Sabah has to recover their autonomy. Self-govern and for better and or worse cut a path for their much neglected people.
Religion separate from Government !
Very bad taste. So you think our soldier deserve to die coz they are paid for.
You definitely have gotten your values wrong.
Not only you have your values wrong but your logical argument shows is flawed. If you don’t respect the consti why should we even bother with the Malaysian agreement or the 20 points etc. I adopt your attitude and say heck it man. Might as well take over the whole Sarawak. These are stupid consequence of your argument. Further if you are against amending the consti hundreds of times then it runs contrary to your idea of autonomy as it requires amendments of the consti. Some disconnect in your synapses I think.
But the worse. I have to say this. If you are contemptous of our constitution, go fly kite and leave elsewhere. We should evict people like you if you dont. I call on the Police, arm forces, civil servants should not protect and serve people like you. You’re despicable.
Is RM 1360 monthly pay equitable to the risk that we took! Mind you I (and many others like me) was a doctor in the army/air force. My colleagues in private was making 20x more at that time. I guess RM1360 can be considered handsomely paid. We serve with passion and pride. I make sure that those in my care do not die during flights.
The most gruesome case was a lady who bled non stop and her body fluids was being replaced. By the time we reach the hospital, I was soaked in blood and she was wheeled straight to operation theater. Her name was Rinai Agan a 45 year old woman from Bario. She is still alive and well.. I last met her i think 4 years ago when I visited bario.
Brother, please dont insult me with your unfair statements. You have no idea how much sweat and energy I have given for the people there.
You have earned my displeasure.
You are very nice doc. I think he deserves at least a kick in the butt for this deplorable attitude, value and mindset. He thinks all these soldiers and serviceman owe their life to him since they are being paid even though a pittance. Crazy.
Oooooophs, I meant, Doc Raffick…tender apologies to Orang Swk…!
Dear Dr. Rafick
I am all for full Autonomy, let us revisit the 20 point Agreement and the Lord Cobbold Commission. Sarawak deserved to be given full autonomy as a nation state in Malaysia.
Sarawak & Sabah never joined but help to form the Malaysian Federation and by Right Sarawak and Sabah should be equally treated as one of the three Nation State in the Federation, that is Malaya, Sabah and Sarawak.
And what we have currently is seriously wrong, by degrading the 2 State of Sabah and Sarawak into the same entity of any district in Malaya like that of Johore, Melaka or any other state in the peninsular.
Should PR accorded the Full Autonomy to Sabah and Sarawak on the following matters, then All Sarawakian and Sabahan Voters should Vote PR into power and that should be included in the PR Election Manifesto in the coming Election. Subject to be given Full Autonomy are as follows:-
a. Natural Resources – Oil & Gas, Land, Sea, Air and Forestry.
b. Immigration
c. Education
d. Religion
e. Local Government
f. Full Borneonization of the State and Federal Public Post
g. Full Funding to all Mission and National Type School
i. Non restriction of Usage and utilization of all Non Muslim Religious believe, participation and practice.
IN FEDERAL LEVEL
a. Increase the Promotion of Senior Military Officer to the Rank of General (Brig, Maj, Lt and General) in all Service from Sabah and Sarawak. Stop the negative perception that only the Muslim Malayan Malay are only good and trusted Military Officers. Since all of them are under oath, before taking Office, thereby by right all of the competence and eligible Officers should be accorded a proper promotion that is due to them and a good material to become the Top Military Commander of the Nation.
b. Increase the Promotion of Sarawakian and Sabah in all level of Public Services and in all of GLC entities as well.
c. Abolition of Race, Religion, Color and Creed in all level of the Malaysian society.
d. Encourage positive competition for quality and standard.
e. Assist those hapless and the have not without ever looking at their Race, Religion, Color and Creed in all level of the Malaysian society.
f. Eliminate Corruption, nepotism, cronyism, favoritism and plundering of the nation wealth once and for all,
g. Solve the illegal Immigrant problem and the MY Kad Illegal Project in Sabah by all means.
For all of that to be achieve we have to vote PR to power, because BN/UMNO will never do it for us.
This is rubbish. There’s not any reference to our constitution. All 30/18 points have been negotitated and factored into our constitution. There is an agreed state list where it describes state powers. There is a federal list which deleanate federal powers. And another list which states concurrent powers. Each has it’s powers. No less. No more.
The fact you have made no reference to our constitution shows either you are ignorant or contemptuous of it. If it’s the latter I can only say go fly kite and stay out of malaysia including Sarawak.(if not we should evict you) Full autonomy is rubbish. Your PR can never give you that. Kit siang says Malaysian first you goon. You will have to wage a war for that.
What’s highly deplorable is the extreme state parochalism in you disregarding any interest of Malaysia. Can’t even understand kit siangs Malaysian first but support PR. Utterly abominable attitude. And it mesmerised me that all those who champion Malaysian first are totally silent on this. Shows to show again we can’t think through and a blind follower.
Hi Ellese
So, “I can only say go fly kite and stay out of malaysia including Sarawak.(if not we should evict you) Full autonomy is rubbish.”
Childish, childish, childish. The Constitution has specific rules on requirements of being a Malaysian. So, you are like the twitless bigots in UMNO that scream ‘fly kite’, i.e. in your language for removal of citizenship toall of non-Malay and non-Muslim origin, that has alternate views for a better Malaysia.
Principally, to restoring the agreement that formed MALAYSIA, in the first place.
Alas, do you know, UMNO BN gives the converted Blue National Registration Identification Cards to masses and masses coming to Malaysian shores from Indonesia, Philippines and even Pakistan. Hell, it is so cheap, all a Philippino needs to do is stick his fore finger in the air and say he /she is a muslim, then *Presto*, we see a newly minted Malaysian !!
If you cannot respect our constitution you cannot be a Malaysian. The same treatment applies elsewhere in other country. In the US, however disagreeable one is with the political parties, they respect the constitution. Those who do not are unpatriotic and cannot be an American.
Similarly with you. You have shown contempt and disregard of our constitution. Your argument betray the founding agreement we had. No reference is made to our constitution in your argument as if the constitution is a piece of ‘shit’.
You have a callous disregard of Malaysia. You only have an extreme state parochialism mndset to the detriment of Malaysia. You disregard the fact that the 20 points have been negotiated and agreed upon. You don’t care of consequence of Malaysia. You are arguing based on selective history disregarding superceding events and agreement. Don’t you think our sultan, family of rajah brook and sultan sulu can go all the way back in history to claim their rights disregarding superceeding events and agreement if they argue like you? Sure they can. Your short thinking is dangerous and show a wanton disregard of our well being. You don’t care that if Sarawak has autonomy other states have the right as well. You’re very selfish.
If you cannot argue referencing to our constitution and disregarding it, you don’t deserve to be a Malaysian. Americans will argue as such as well. The same with other countries where people feel bound and obliged to protect the constitutional value.
So you see they are not childish. They feel the same anger and betrayal as I do. So get your values right. The right thing is integration.
At times it can be entertaining to see that many are writing about democracy and their rights on opinion. Somehow, I suspect many are not aware about the ‘big picture’. To me, the big picture here is whether Malaysia practices (true) democracy? We can talk all we want on Constitution, Law, history and whatever under the sky. But the question remains whether Malaysia practices democracy?
If it does, surely those literates (not necessary being educated) should know that everyone has the right to freedom of expression and choice. This right shall include freedom to seek, receive, impart information and making choices. And before you goons start jumping into conclusion, we should not rule out that some writers can really write or say seditious and inciting articles. Whatever it may be, we must first examine what is right and wrong? It is method to seek about morality or the concepts of good and bad, right and wrong, justice, and virtue. Mainly, the answer lies to the voice of majority; if more people say it is wrong, then, it is taken for granted that it is wrong. So, what happens to the voice of minority? Also it is sad here in Malaysia as the answer lies on the voice of those in ‘power’; for those in power (even though may be only a few in numbers or a minority) can decide for the mass. Can we really practice democracy when we are so feudalistic in nature?
We should not waste time argue about is history as it may be a bit too late, since history is a record of past events. To prepare for the future might be a pragmatic solution. If we truly believe in ourselves (and practice democracy), then we should allow the Sarawakians to decide if they want Autonomy. With their resources and brains, I am sure the Sarawakians can choose wisely. The next question might be that whether they wanted to be (fully) Independence again? Can they do that? Does (our) democracy allow that?
when u have one deputy piem said that ‘development funds are being channeled to Barisan Najis MPs constituencies only. There is no intention to channel any funds to those constituencies represented by opposition MPs’, that’s mean democracy hardly live in mesia…
Bijak sungguh deputy piem kite ni…..Hehe.
Terrible logic and selective. Why not give all the states the right to decide as well? We can’t Penang have referendum whether the island can be independent. Similarly with kelantan? Next Johor? Kedah? Sabah?
Then might as well forget about Malaysia.
Think thru. Don’t argue on the vague notion of democracy without analysing deeper.
Erratum: ‘we can’t penang’ should be ‘ why can’t Penang’.
Ellese
I have a good feeling that you always wanted to have the last say. Anyway, I will see how far I can accommodate.
When you first appear on this blog, I thought this Ellese certainly writes (actually the appropriate word would be argue – which you had subconsciously stated many times over your postings) well. Logically, just argue … You seem to be a bigot in respecting others views and opinions. Certainly, we can have a decent discourse but surely you should also respect the views of others. From your posting, your arrogance does show. I know you enjoyed arguing; which probably stimulate your ego or as you may think, your intellectual. I suspect others may also think that you are obnoxious. Whatever their thoughts or logic may be, it is their rights!!!
What is not logical to you may be logical to others. Hence, that is the reason why I mentioned that “you always wanted to have the last say”. Going by your standard or logic, why state or give examples of the States with Sultan (Ruler)? I could understand if you mentioned Penang and Malacca, or even Sabah and Sarawak. What logic are you talking about? Surely, you understand very well (maybe as an afterthought) where the argument (oppss … maybe I should use a more politically correct term such as “disagreement”) is going.
You seem to a well read guy (even with a name Ellese !!. Is it a personality disguise or what?). You should be able to distinguish a question from a proposal.
Funny, somehow the point that I wish to raise, “democracy” had been debunked by you just like that, with your nebulous comments!!!. What happened when there is a need to change the Constitution? To be blunt, it is not carved in stone, you know?
dear kata kini,
I like the way you write. It’s your point on referendum which was followed up by hua yong that I find disturbing and not in consonance with a value system.
Our value should always be to stick together and intergrate better and not the other way around ie to disintegrate. But I find it shocking that we have become like politicians in changing our values according to circumstances. we shouldn’t do this. I’m reading a number of articles and at the moment find that there’s a move towards this viewpoint instigated merely to get votes. (search thd web). Politicians are generally selective of facts and spin as gospel truth. People then believe them not because it’s true but because they believe in personalities. On this Sabah sarawak point they harp on the 20 points but not the negotiation preceeding that which resulted to an agreed position in our constitution. Some even question that Sabah and Sarawak is not a state disregarding that all the leaders last time have agreed to it under our consti. This also I find in the rhethorics of politicians to get votes.
The point on Sabah n Sarawak being given a right to determine independence should not at all be entertained. Full stop. Legally it’s a settle law. Let me quote, prof shad faruqi, an eminent consti jurist:
“Secession: Can these states (Sabah n serawak) change their mind and seek independence? The answer is simple and blunt. No state has a right to secede from the Federation. Our destinies are intertwined and any differences must be settled through negotiation and compromise. Contrary to what is believed, Singapore did not secede. It was expelled by amendments to the 1957/1963 Constitution.”
thus I had to be blunt. It’s a well settle law on this point and see no reason to open up. I can only see the destruction of Malaysia here. It’s totally not acceptable to argue along this point.
To me this is where we should say no, we love malaysia. We have agreed to our constitution. We will live by it and move forward from this.
I am willing to debate on improvement of Sabah and sawarak condition. If need be challenge the constituional provisions therein. But if you realise overwhelming majority are not even willing to read the consti. They just want to rely on politicians argument of the 20 points. This I find frustrating.
My approach in the debate herein is simple. I will be blunt uncompromising and even as you say obnoxious when a fundamental value is being changed for political purpose. I need to reestablish the value of limited parameters and a conscience of our constitution. And as we move along introduce constitutional argument into the picture. My hope is that we can explore and address concerns of Sabah and Sarawak but not within the framework of independence and full autonom espoused by politicians. As Shad Faruqi ends:
” It must be borne in mind, however, that tensions between federal and state governments are commonplace in all federations. Malaysia is fortunate that these tensions have rarely reached open discord or hostilities. Forty-seven years of association between peninsular Malaysia and Sabah and Sarawak have brought many benefits to all sides……
….Despite all our problems, there is no reason to believe that the spirit of accommodation that animated the body politic in 1957 and in 1963 cannot continue for a long, long time.”
Ellese
Should I take it as a compliment for your opening sentence? I am proud to see that you really practise what you preach; you did think thru (as mentioned in your earlier postings) – having to response to many other postings before attending to this one (mine). I must also admire your persistency and the consistency (though repetitious, no different from what you commented about others) in delivering your ‘message’.
Sorry to detract you from the way or how I had written. Anyhow, HuaYong has a mind on its own (no pun intended). Although I could go along with what you are saying, I was just ‘suggesting’ an alternate. Your views are sort of going ‘by the book’ (according to the rules). This can be a bit dogmatic.
I could not (or wish not to) dispute with what you are saying here. My terrible logic would suggest attending what is in existence first (reference to our CONSTITUTION), then follow up with other ‘option’ (which I may have suggested). Sure, we should attempt to stick together before opting for an alternate. It is just like in a marriage; you will try to reconcile first if things does not worked out before taking an option of getting a divorce. BTW, just curious about the analogy used by ServiceB4Self; what happened if the groom/bride that was married after 47 years decided to divorce? Surat Taklik boleh pakai ke?
I can see where you are going and the fear of what things MAY get out of hand, so to speak. IMHO, there is a ‘price to pay’ for any extreme form of thinking or philosophy. On the point of Sabah and Sarawak, personally I would rather leave it to them to decide what they wanted to do (in this matter I’ll try to stay away from ‘hal keluarga lain’; even though we may be ‘relative or related’). I must agree fully with you that politician will exploit any avenues to get political mileage. However, those in east Malaysians are matured enough to make their own choice. They will then need to live with its benefits or consequences that will come in the future. Please do not suggest that I was suggesting a referendum. Whatever the outcome is part of democracy, at least what I believe at this moment.
You should not allow the politicians to irritate you. They will do whatever it takes to get coverage, get noticed or even just to be popular. For a closing, may I suggest THAIRU. Balasi and Pelangisenja do enjoyed them!!!
Dr…. i dont want my money to be used to bail out your housing problem
Dear Rafzi
I have no intention to ask for your money or government money. I am asking the government to resolve the abandon the housing development issue by effectively use a the law forcefully via a legal task force. I am also asking the government to change the laws to prevent the problem from happening. This is to ensure that you or your children will not suffer from the problem of abandon housing.
Trust this clarifies
If autonomy is Utter Nonsense, then the whole premise of the formation of Malaysia is utter nonsense! Autonomy here should be interpreted in the context of the Malaysia Agreement.
Farouq
I believe what is provided for under the Malaysian Agreement is in place. Please advice which of the POA 18/20 has been breached or not respected
I beg to differ Sir.
A lot of them are not in placed, at least in Sabah – Points 8, 11, 15 and 20. And to a certain extent, Points 1 and 6.
Why can’t you refer to our constitution. All these points have been trashed out. Positions have been taken. We’ve already agreed to a common position. Why can’t you honour our agreement? Why can’t you respect our constitution?
Ellese,
It is the BN government since time immemorial that didn’t honor the agreement. What are you talking about?
I really think you need to go beyond your so-called constitution expertise to understand the plight of the east malaysians.
I am all for respecting the constituion but only if the contents are implemented in letter and spirit.
The federal government has bankrupted our state and you say we are not the ones honoring the agreement?
C’mon now.
Why are you framing your argument within bn context. If you don’t like bn, it’s your right to change. Partisanship by itself doesn’t solve issues.
My point is this. Why are you selective in referring to the 20 points but not the constitution. Our constitution is the supreme law of the land. It’s the most important document. This is where your rights emanate. Your land rights. Your posession of things, Identity, your marriage, your school, your naming of the children right etc etc emantes from our consti. All what you do emanates from there. Otherwise it’s illegal. What you can own and do.
So don’t interpret consti sesuka hati. Study it.learn the spirit and objective. You cannot interpret solely on the 20 points. It’s a culmination of negotiations involving all including the British who governs Sabah and Sarawak.
From there my friend, We debate further. There are Sabah n Sarawak detailed issues which we can debate and postulate.
Dear Dr. Rafick,
I cant believe that you have just said that the Malaysia agreement is being honoured, either you lack the facts or refuse to acknowledge the ground realities.
As usual and is the the case in Malaysia, we do not honour our agreements, we are selective and implement what is advantageous to us.
Lets be honest, we as in West Malaysians, have used up the East Malaysian resources mainly for the progress of West Malaysians.
Lets not cloud the discussion with being a Malaysian first and a nationalist, lets just look at what we promised Sabah and Sarawak to entice them to form a new entity called Malaysia which consists of the Federated Malay States, Sabah and Sarawak and equal partners at that.
And now we expect them to be just another Malaysian state and abandon the privileges (yes this is their privilege) that were the basis of their participation in the formation of Malaysia.
Lets keep an honest perspective here!!!
Please list which part is not being honored with explanation
Totally misguided. Why can’t you respect our constitution. We have already earmarked powers of state and federal. The Malaysian agreement was negotiated and factored into our consti. So why cant you make reference to it.
Further autonomy can only happen if you increase the state list jurisdiction. Which part do you want to actually amend?
Why can’t you think forward on integration? Why must we still focus on our differences? What happen to Malaysian first?
as they said singapore never wrong if even she make a honest mistake,,so goes to this articel!
I also feel the same way as RPK in his blog below.
http://malaysia-today.net/mtcolumns/no-holds-barred/36650-why-i-am-a-loose-cannon
It seems the “prophetic Anwar an Azmin” can do no wrong and cannot be touched!
If not GET WHACKED!
Doc,
As I have written – RPK is the numero rabble rouser. And to me the 3rd force should be like him but instead they want to be independent lawmakers. I see it as a wee bit idealistic !
Khasmir,Tibet,Mongolia,East Timor didnt get full autonomy and see how poor they become while the masters are better off. East Germany,Hawaii,got full autonomy and they are as good as their masters. Dont you think Sabah-Sarawak shd be on par with West Msia by now?Have a heart for those poor kids who walk miles through the jungles,some bare-footed, just to reach schools.Let’s not make these kids’ offsprings repeat the same torture while we over here salooning our fat kids everywhere.Sabah n Sarawak deserve a better life bcos they are also equal human beings, not lesser.
Why are you disregarding our constitution? What’s wrong with you?
Dear bold Raffick
‘A little learning is a dangerous thing,’ and that is has been very true in your article, the article “Autonomy – Utter NONSENSE!”.
Sarawak and Sabah, do have the RIGHTs to be AUTONOMOUS. it was framed in the agreement that created Malay-sia.
It is about time Sarawak and Sabah regain that autonomy, and be govern accordingly, for better or worse. YES, for better or WORSE ! No earthly reason for Borneo Malaysians to have the MALAY and their false piety in ISLAM rule the tribes to poverty in mind and spirit,eh?
These Malays, the so-called Muslims, read UMNO, swindle big time from far away Kuala Lumpur, eh ?
Their government should actually begin with local council elections. A must is the separation of religion from politics in these two states.
Do re-look into history and examine the facts. Nothing could be clearer.
The UMNOputras, I include ALL the PM’s, we had, tried to this day to cower the peoples of Borneo Malaysia with lack on everything to make the wonderful people of these here two states poor and thus easily ‘controlled’ whilst wealth from their land & shores are siphoned to the UMNO-BN piggy bank…and a VERY large piggy bank it is.
My history books says there was no Malaysia before 16 September 1963. So how come ‘we’ lost the, what? Northern States ? Johore, then, was ruled by a petty sultan and he had no knowledge of ‘Malaysia’, I’m dead sure.
*sigh*…your UMNoputras love changing history. But ME, a Malaysian First, not buying it. !!
Your writing reflect badly on you.
Tune 9,
I agree that Sabah and Sarawak have the right to govern themselves.
But I think you’re mistaking Malay with Muslims. Sabah has never been ruled by a Malay. Most of those who have become CM’s are Bajau-Suluk; Muslims yes but not Malay.
I think you should also get your facts right.
Rubbish. What about our constitution? If you dont respect it go fly kite.
Wow! Quite a spirited exchange of views.
Doc n Ellese,
I wish to reiterate that Autonomy is NOT about secession or independance. Its about recognising special circumstances of a particular area or region within a country or outside the country. Do refer to Autonomy in geo-political definition. There are many working examples in the world today.
There is no intention to plant the seed of discord for eventual separation or non respect for our constitution. Recognizing autonomy is well within the confines of our Constitution.
As for the frustration of the people, it stems from the mismanagement by the Federal Government. When Federal denies the rightful allocation of funds and resources, it causes consternation. People react and start questioning. Thus, the anxiety does not just appear out of nothing. There are root causes. We are all trying to find a solution to overcome these issues. We express our views.
We all love our country. We all want peace and harmony. Hidup Malaysia.
Dear Bib
If that is his intention that he should not use the word AUTONOMY! He should have use a different word. What word..I dont know.
As far as I see it he is sowing a negative seed in Sarawak for fragmented nation. His message can be read in many negative ways from the angle of a nation. He is making it worse for the nation. My apologies that for this one I am having difficulty to agree with you.
Doc,
Will suggest “Berdikari” instead of “Autonomi”.
Cheers
Better..
Habib
If you read the many comments in my blog, you can see many sarawakians here dont want to be associated with people in Semenanjung. Even the CM Taib rob the nation on a broad daylight they still say it is UMNO doing. I do not deny that people in east malaysia has a greater disadvantage than us in peninsular but we must appreciate that many of this legal robbers are sarawakians themselves.
Azmin has created a chain of fire. Going from the comments that I see in my blog an MT, it is very dangerous. We talk about one nation an at the same time we talk about autonomy…. i really dont know what to say.
Doc,
All these stems from frustration. Federal could have checked CM Taib for his daylight robbery but Federal turned a blind eye for selfish reason – its their fixed deposit to stay in power. Its widely viewed by Sarawakians that Taib’s plundering goes on with tacit support from Federal.
Do read this article in FMT today.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/fmt-english/politics/sabah-and-sarawak/14134-jeffrey-in-secret-meeting-with-kuan-yew
Then you will can also assess whether Azmin created this chain of fire or its been burning all along.
We are one nation but the people entrusted to share the wealth of the nation has led us down. This is now causing consternation. Rakyat getting more celik and want to berdikari. Nak harapakan orang lain…parah.
Yesterday, i was having a chat with a retired senior government servant (a malay)….. he says that it so easy for BUMNO to placate the rakyat if only they dont push the Ketuanan Melayu agenda to the max. Example, immediately appoint a few non Malays as Chancellors n VC, make few non malay DGs in key agencies, etc. Dont push the rakyat to the brink..else they will hit back.
Habib Rak,
Everyone goes after the politicians and always forget to wack the taikos of the underground economy and the crooked businessmen who are part and parcel of the make-up of a badly governed capitalist state. I help you and you help me mah!
UMNO rely on Malay rural votes and will be the loser if they placate to the non Malays demands in total. I think that is why NTR is scared shit of Perkasa. Who is the majority in the numbers game ?
Habib
Please read comment by Orang Swk. Do you now see what I mean. Is this what Azmin promising the Sarawakian. Suggest you reply to him
Somehow Doc, u seem to be less sharp these days, have u turned the leaf or what.
Your comment as per below is well below par if my understanding of your wit is correct.
Quote “Even the CM Taib rob the nation on a broad daylight they still say it is UMNO doing” Unquote.
Let me explain in simple England. What Taib does, he is allowed to do by the federal government which is BN or in other words UMNO. Hence it is UMNO’s doing, cause they let him rob freely while not taking any action.
Its like that lah, like Najib says, you help me, I help you.
Get the drift
Got it brother.. the message I am trying to highlight is that the BIG TAKERS in sarawak are sarawakian themself
i know what he shud use…
AUTONOMY should be replaced by “ILOVEZEIDOMY”
How’s that? Would that make u lower the tone a bit…
Hehe.
Dear Habib,
think you have missed the whole point. To argue more autonomy within our constitutional framework is an oxymoron.
First you are not appreciative that the constitution lays out the balance of power within a federalisation of states. In other words an agreed balance of power has been divided to all states. Each state has it’s power under the state and concurrent list.
If you want autonomy you definitely have to amend our federal
constitution because this is the only way to empower and increase the state power. No two way about it. Thus statement of giving more autonomy without affecting our constitution is wholly misguided.
Dear Ellese,
Seeking autonomy within the confines of our Constitution is not oxymoron. Anyway, on a lighter note, enjoy the following oxymorons.
1. Is it good if a vacuum really sucks?
2. Why is the third hand on the watch called the second hand?
3. If a word is misspelled in the dictionary, how would we ever know?
4. If Webster wrote the first dictionary, where did he find the words?
5. Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?
6. Why does “slow down” and “slow up” mean the same thing?
7. Why does “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing?
8. Why do “tug” boats push their barges?
9. Why do we sing “Take me out to the ball game” when we are already there?
10. Why are they called ” stands” when they are made for sitting?
11. Why is it called “after dark” when it really is “after light”?
12. Doesn’t “expecting the unexpected” make the unexpected expected?
13. Why are a “wise man” and a “wise guy” opposites?
14. Why do “overlook” and “oversee” mean opposite things?
15. Why is “phonics” not spelled the way it sounds?
16. If work is so terrific, why do they have to pay you to do it?
17. If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
18…. If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
19. If you are cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right?
20. Why is bra singular and panties plural?
21. Why do you press harder on the buttons of a remote control when you know the batteries are dead?
22. Why do we put suits in garment bags and garments in a suitcase?
23. How come abbreviated is such a long word?
24. Why do we wash bath towels? Aren’t we clean when we use them?
25. Why doesn’t glue stick to the inside of the bottle?
26. Why do they call it a TV set when you only have one?
Habib RAK,
Good one to know such thing which reflect oxymorons which being practice without noticing all the while.
Historically, why the East Malaysian states join the Federation? Bcos of the communist threat after the war. Now, that concern is no more. They should be given the chance to develop their own state. They can employ the West Malaysian brains (if there are any like yours) to help develop the state. We always blame the British for colinising us and raping the land. But at least they give back and let us have a chance to develop ourselves (with their expertise, ofc). NOW, its time we let the East do so. Azim is right, fair and far sighted. You are irrelavant, talking nonsence about losing the North and South, Stupid ?
Reasonable
Your writing reflects badly of you
Reasonable,
Reasonably Wrong.
There were no communists threat in Sabah lah, fool!
Sabahan 18,
Do you know how and what Communist Insurgency are?
Do you know how and from where they ” mole ” and ”network” operate?.
I’m a fool and you are not, its ok with me for I dont know EVERYTHING and always appreciate people who KNOWs all.
And please be reminded the Communist In Malaysia only surrender in term of arm struggle BUT not the communist ideology.
So, Beware.
I agree, communism ideology is still alive.
But you know what, in Sabah, people are pretty devout in their respective religions.
hence, the thought of communism – political, economical or ideological – is pretty much non-existent in Sabah.
And please don’t mistaken socialism with communism; they may be assimilated with one another but the difference is mighty.
pelangisenja,
at the outset, allow me to say that the ‘fool’ comment is not me calling you a fool but an expression along Mr T’s character in A-Team.
when I said there were no commmunist insurgency in Sabah, I was merely stressing facts. when Sabah was granted independence by Britain on 31st Aug 1963 and prior to the formation of the federaion of malaysia, the only imminent threat Sabah had was from the Philippines – who was claiming by virtue of the Sulu Sultanate housed in the Philippines – and to smaller extent, Indonesia.
Can you give me a time when there was a communist threat in Sabah? I dare say that that threat was only present in the Peninsula and not in Sabah.
I also don’t know everything but if there’s one thing I know and I’m sure of is tha the communists never penetrated Sabah.
Bro Raffick, have you been to East Malaysia recently? I have been working in and out of Sabah & Sarawak for the last 20 yrs with some break in between. People there are nice and kind and mostly poor.
I have many good acquaintances form East Malaysia and a few friends. All very nice people. All are also very ignored people. We in West Malaysia have ignored their needs quite a bit. And they are pissed off. PISSED OFF big time. They have a huge dislike for Orang Semenanjung.
So whether any politician wants to give autonomy or not is not the issue. The East Malaysians have drfietd away mentally anyway. If indeed Azmin proposed ‘separation’ by saying ‘autonomy’ then he will find himself in Kamunting in a wink.
If he means more economic benefit for our East Malaysian ‘saudaras’ then they will welcome it. You just need to see how they live, where they study and how many job opportunities they have to understand this.
Please travel to East Malaysia and talk to the people incognito. You will get the message and know why BN has to worry.
That does not mean supporting PR is the best thing. It just means BN has to do more for our saudara over there.
I agree with you on the need to do more for the people in Sarawak. I think if we take Taib Mahmud wealth and spread it all over Sarawak many Sarawakians are better off.
I use to work in east malaysia and has many friends there as well. I agree many are nice. I enjoyed my stay there. My last trip was I thin 3-4 years ago.
Hi Raffick!
I’ve just got one question here –
“WE” “LOST” the northern territories?
How can “we” lose something when this “we” didn’t exist?
This “we” you speak of, only came into existence because of the Brits later on. If not for them, “we” will be speaking “bahasa baku” with Indon accents today.
As for the “we lost Singapore”- yes ” We” did- but it wasn’t becos Tunku was stupid, but becos Razak was “smart” …. since LKY was too good for Umno’s Jaffar Albar antics of hegemony.
As for Sarawak “autonomy” – although I may not quite trust Azmin on this (based on his antics in Sabah), I believe he only said it because he doesn’t have a choice. Given one, he’d probably take over Taib Mahmud (LOL). Makes no difference anyways – they are quite autonomous as it is …. so no big deal la.
Did Azmin issue his statement in English or BM? Was he reported 100% correctly or partially correctly? If in English, did he use the word/term “full autonomy” or “autonomy” or “partial autonomy”? Whatever words/terms he used, did he actually mean “full autonomy” or “autonomy” or “partial autonomy”?
If he did indeed said and meant “full autonomy”, then he was obviously quite drunk at that time. Full autonomy for Sarawak means virtually independence, either a mutually agreed and amicable one or one like Singapore, practically being kicked out.
If he had said “autonomy”, then he need to be questioned for further clarification before being criticized and condemned. Just “autonomy” is vague and meaningless. It can be interpreted to mean so many things.
If he had said “partial autonomy”, this is nothing new. Both Sarawak and Sabah are already entitled to “partial autonomy” under the Malaysia Agreement, but their rights to “partial autonomy” have been eroded over the years. Perhaps what he meant was his promise to restore the rights to the those parts of the “partial autonomy” that have been taken away?
What Azmin meant by autonomy in the adminstration for Sarawakian Affairs is that the State Director of Education post is held by a qualified Sarawakian ; that the State Director of Health is a Sarawakian etc.
Aotonomy also means that whatever was agreed in the Points of Agreement when Sarawak joined the Federation , the Federal Adminstration must ensured it is adhered to, namely, Royalty for Oil & Gas is paid to the state in full and not only part of the deal.
Didn’t you hear the voices of the people at the ground that they want the total deal in the Agreement to be adhered to ?
Autonomy means respect for one’s own religion and rights and not determined by rules and teachers imported into the state. You cannot use Federal laws in the adminstration of religion and initially banning books and words used for centuries by the locals, can you ?
Why cant this post be filled by Malaysian with the best brain and talent
Theoritically why cant or why not? BUT in practice & reality, UMNO’s pig-brain criteria & ketuanan crap are the basis for determining what is “best” for Sarawak/Sabah.
By nature human are selfish and inconsiderate. Look, on one hand we want 1 Malaysia or Malaysian Malaysia but on the other hand we want special positions and privileges. But one must fulfill what has been agreed unless parties agree to change.
Sigh, only if we have selfless and responsible leaders governing this country and all the states.
Blaming the Federal government per se is wrong. Much of the plundering are done by Sarawakian local politicians and tycoons in business , each helping the other to amass the country assets/wealth for personal gains at the expense of the rakyat.
Why blame others .Sarawakians are the voters and they reap what they sow.
Now we have “saya anak bangsa malaysia” and “saya anak bangsa sarawak” !
The understanding of autonomy as stated above is incorrect. State autonomy means that it is the state government and not the federal government that decides on policy. It also means that it is the state government and not the federal government that decides on who to appoint to carry out and implement policy. Such person/persons appointed by the state government can be anyone including foreigners, and necessarily a Sarawakian.
SarawakObserver’s comments on religion is correct provided that the Malaysia Agreement provides for autonomy in religion.
Correction: “and necessarily a Sarawakian” should read “and NOT necessarily a Sarawakian.”
I for one believe that the Eastern States should be on their own… as in INDEPENDENCE!
They would be better off and they can slowly rebuild their own states to be countries that are well managed. They dont have the stigma that the western has!
Go guys.. vote the Malays out of your state and go for self rule!
Then don’t use the name realmalaysian. You cannot think about putting Malaysia’s interest first and foremost but claim as real Malaysian. Further your last sentence shows you’re racist. Shame on you calling yourself a real Malaysian. I bet you dont even know the terms of our constitution. Have you read it?
When you write this master piece have you studied about Hong Kong? Have you done your research on Macau? Have you given thought about what Jakarta has agreed with Acheh? Perhaps, you should google on the aforesaid first.
My advise is clear your mind and focus on the issue and not on the person. Have you read about the Korean whose son was brutally murdered but yet the parents pleaded to court to forgive the felon? You can read this story in the Dale Carnegie books.
Please reflect what our teacher had taught us in the primary school.. “Terlajak perahu boleh diundur, terlajak kata (terutama tulisan) …………….”There is a lot wisdom in it.
Let’s forget personalities. The issue is why do you want autonomy? Which part of the federal constitution balance of federal state power that you want to amend to give state more power? No one seemed to be able to justify except to follow PR leaders to win votes.
Constitutional federalism differ from each state and nation simply due to local experiences and legacy issues. some have gone to war which culminates in autonomous entity. We don’t want to go there. In our case we’ve already agreed to the constituional powers. So please tell us what’s wrong?
If you’re not amending the constitution then you have accepted the east Malaysian states power and jurisdiction under the consitution. In such a case the term autonomy is a misguided term to use. We should never at any point in time sow the seed of separation. But instead steadfastly integrating ourselves. After all isn’t this the demand of being Malaysian first and foremost?
Dear Ellese,
Lets go back to basic. Basically what Sarawakians want is whatever income that the state generates will be for the development of Sarawak. Lets talk about oil & gas, the Sarawak government will keep the oil & gas revenue but will pay the Federal government in form of taxes from the oil & gas revenue. Petronas (or Shell.. etc) will be remunerated for their services according to the contractual terms between Sarawak and the respective petroleum entities. Is it that not self autonomy? I guess that is the main issue. Federal Constitution will be a secondary issue. Do you think that is sowing the seeds of separation? I don’t think so.
Warmest regards
As said many times. You cannot think for your state only. The balance of a federal state has been set. It’s agreed already in our constitution. If you want more please also consider that other states also want more. If less proceeds to federal shouldn’t the state also share costs of obligations. You cannot look at one angle only. Main issue is the state federal powers.
Federal constitution can never be secondary issue. It is the most important document in our country. All laws without exception emanates from it. Your individual and property rights emanate from it. Your ic, house and car ownership emanates from it. Judiciary, army, police, and civil servants exist through the constitution. How can you say it’s secondary is totally baffling.
Dear Ellese,
First thing first.
Foremost, you must have the consensus on what you want to add or drop in the consitution.
Secondly, you must have the two third support of the law makers.
Thirdly, you may have to change the law makers in order to have the two third support.
There you go… the constitution may be a critical issue but not a primary issue.
Regards,
Constitution is the supreme law and document in Malaysia. Everything else emanates from this right down to what you can or cannot do, your name marriage and schooling. This is the same in US and elsewhere.
Once a provision is inserted all must agree to abide. The court will read and interpret this. If you want to amend there are various manner. Contrary to your believe some amendments only require majority consent and some a further consent from the rulers.
In short it’s a primary document. If the 20 points are not inserted, then parties agree not to make it binding or change it’s position. If you want we can go one by one on such premise.
Dear Ellese,
I can only manage to get a B+ for my constitutional law, so I may not be as good as you. From my training the government exists for the sole purpose of serving the people and not ruling the people. As such, the constitution was created to form a government whose sole purpose is to serve the people. The formation of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial arms were to ensure that there will be a separation and balance of power so that no branch of the government would ever become dominant and become a force that rules the people rather than serving the people.
The constitution is the manuscript that establishes a government of the people by the people, and for the people. It provides for as many protections as possible to ensure that the government is subservient to the people and serving the people.
No government/human being is perfect. As and when the government violates the constitution it is the duty of people to bring the government back into compliance with the constitution. However, the sensitive question is by what means do the people exercise their rights? For the answer you can refer to the several historical examples and precedents where people have risen up to establish supremacy of the will of the people over the interests of the government.
The rakyat have the right to be personally involved in government. It is not just voting but going to the trouble to understand the issues and make a well reasoned decision.
It is also a duty of the rakyat to ensure that the institution that controls corruption actually do something when corruption is reported. Corruption in government shall not and cannot be tolerated because if it becomes a trend, cover-up becomes the norm. When the government breaks the law, then there will be no law. “Kepimpinan Melalui Teladan” it teaches the whole rakyat by its example.
In this issue, the Sarawakians, in addition to the perceived oppression and corruption, they also feel that the government has not done enough in regard to the 20 point agreement/18 point agreement/constitution. In fairness, there is some truth when they clamour that there are people who put their personal profits ahead of the good of the people. When the government fails to stop corruption it invokes the responsibility of the Sarawakians to take whatever steps necessary to stop corruption. And this is not something that should be taken lightly or for granted.
As the last resort, if the rakyat think there exist no other way to make the court/government protects their rights there will be direct intervention of the rakyat to hasten to amend the constitution. To borrow drrafick words… “This really scares me”.
Eh Brother…..
We Sarawakian prefer to have own Autonomy lah.
Why you west malaysian so worried about Sarawak for
what???
Are you afraid that one day when we say bye-bye with your Malaya, you all will lost all the rice bowl from our petrol & gas??
Better you ask thousands of Sarawakian what they actually prefer rather than your silly posting about Autonomy here. We decide for the future of our land, and not by west malaysian!
Anak Sarawak
There are many excellent Sarawakians that are in high government position in KL. We should focus on finding the best brain and talent among Malaysian to filled the necessary top government post rather than focussing whether they are from Pahang, Kelantan, Sabah, Sarawak etc etc.
I agree but in as far as Sabah and Sarawak are concerned, it’s clearly stipulated that the government agencies MUST be from the respective states.
alahai..relexla bro tak payah buat kecohlee..non sense to you..but make sense to Sarawakian!!
Ok zik. Tell me us which part of our constitution you think you want to amend to make sense since you’re understand better than the rest. Also tell me whether you believe in Malaysian first concept of lit kit siang?
Your utter contempt on Azmin demonstrates how big of a sore loser you are.
The fact that Azmin won fair and square also indicates your utter disrespect for the PKR election process.
And to smash Azmin for saying the right thing shows how confused your state of mind is.
It’s time for you to accept the fact that Zaid lost and Azmin won fair and square.
Zaid was banking on the support of Jeffery Kittigan and it turns out Jeffery is not as popular as people would have expected.
Hence, the loss of Zaid in Sabah.
What has this got to do with Zaid Ibrahim. I am not talking about individuals here. I am talking about what Azmin said. He should not use the word autonomy as it will confuse the masses and create anti-KL waves in sarawak. You remember PBS slogan and song “sabah for sabah and sabah will show the way in early early 90′s!
On Azmin winning fair and square- If that is your assessment than i cant say much other than you subscribe to what you believe and I will subscribe to what I believe. Lets respect each other position on this. From my own assessment, there are ample evidence already
Azmin did not win fair and square. You must be driven by absolute partisanship. Allegations have been made of forgery, pengundi hantu, non transparent voting system, biasness, manipulation and you think it’s fair? And what does pkr intend to do with this? Nothing. This favour azmin. And you still say it’s fair?
Your sense of fairness seems to revolve on Anwar like he’s demigod who does no wrong. And now as Anwar annointed successor azmin can say anything he likes and you follow blindly is it? Where’s the logic in all this save for utter partisanship.
It’s this type of thinking that will destroy our nation. Politics must have limits.
I agree with Habib RAK.
I don’t think Azmin implied anything beyond what’s been agreed between the two East M’sian states. To suggest that Azmin meant to give the two states full autonomy as defined in a dictionary is, to my mind, being unnecessarily confrontational and unwarranted.
And to say that Sarawak/Sabah is already self governing is not entirely true. From the chief minister down, most civil servant who is in a position of authority are subordinate to their West M’sian masters. They may be East M’sians but they don’t call the shots.
It is about time our East M’sian brothers have a bigger say and role in managing their states.
Regards.
Commonman
As I mentioned, if he does not mean beyond POA 18, then he should not use the word autonomy! It will create confusion. It is a wrong choice of words. At the moment POA 18 is in place and is being used strictly without any bending. Then what is he talking about. Is the federal government of the day not respecting POA 18?
.
but why picked on him when BN has been the unscrupulous one?
if thats not prejudice what is or you are just suffering from selective amnesia?
or perhaps you are just scaring yourself.
.
Bro ,this is the first time I don’t agree with you.what azmin said is very true.can you recall what happen to the x director general of education Matnor Daim.he was the first DG from swak but was ask to quit without reason by najib when he was education minister. All this while swak was treated like a shit .
Please don’t give wrong info just because you don’t like azmin.
Please understand what autonomy is. You seemed confused. If you are for autonomy tell us what’s wrong with the state power and jurisdiction balance under our constitution. please respect our constitution. If you’re not asking for such change I believe you are misguided in pushing for autonomy by politicians.
You are confuse my friend
Since when did the Southern Thailand belonged to us. It was they other way around except for some moments of indifference by the Thai / Burmese debacles. If not for the British things could have been very different indeed.
Itulah… bila cikgu ajar sejarah.. jangan tidur dalam kelas
Tolong baca kat sini. http://www.thailand-travel-guide.de/thailandpattani.html
In politics, a self-governing city or region, e.g. Hong Kong (not necessarily as a result of formal secession), is autonomous. True autonomy is usually a pre-requisite to separation or secession, however, but autonomy does not necessarily lead to separation.
And in Sabah’s case , one of two Borneo provinces that makeup Malaysia , the other being Sarawak , article 7 of the 20 point agreement blatantly states there should be no right to secede from the Federation. Clearly in this context , as far as those who drafted the 20 point agreement were concerned , autonomy granted to the two Borneo entities shall not be perceived as a stepping stone or prerequisite to future independence.
I think you’re selective of facts and your suggestions doesn’t make sense.
Why are you limiting autonomy to Sabah and Sarawak only? Why not give each state it’s own autonomy? Forget federalism. Each state has it’s own education system. Each state has it’s own army. Own foreign ministry. Give all proceeds to state to govern. Less money to federal.
Why change the federalism concept. You justify such need. PR I can understand. They just want votes and care hoot about our nation. This is deplorable. But you. Tell me why what’s so wrong with our agreed federalism. what’s so wrong with our constitution. Why are you opposed to integration? Tell me why?
None can tell me thus far save to follow politicians. Are we not able to think for ourselves.
Well argued. If I may add. The constitution has been accepted by all where there is a separation of Federal and state rule. We should be finding ways to do trans-boundary integration and not reinforcing the barriers as it is. For e.g. Only in Malaysia the movement of people from one state to another in one country is currently regulated by immigration rules.
If “Each state has it’s own education system. Each state has it’s own army. Own foreign ministry. Give all proceeds to state to govern”, then “Less money to federal” is completely meaningless because there is no more federal.
When referring to “autonomy for states with a federation”, I always assume the autonomy refers to is partial autonomy, and only on matters which exclude at least national defense and foreign affairs.
Danil daud.
On paper, I agree with you but once it is embedded in the heads of the people in the street and the pressure mounts. If the people takes to the street and demand independence , what do we do! Why plant this seed of separation? Just because to win votes. I think the separation is quite clear at the moment
drrafick,
I just love the first sentence of the first para. That is what they call themselves as reformist and a staunch democrats.
The rest of what you had wriiten above is a thing for every level headed citizens of our beleoved nation should ponder DEEPLY before jumping DEEP pond created by CON politician of certain party. The citizens should be vary about ” wolves in sheep clothing ” and ever ready to pounce on them to subdue their HUNGER FOR POWER.
AA maybe trying some art of deceiving and at the same time try to make ” A NEW HEADLINE ” in order to divert the masses attention and focus on the WIKILEAKS ” REVELATION ” of his Master. After all, is not HE is the true ” SAVIOUR ” of his Master for decades and he has NO boundaries in carrying out his TASK as a protector. His sister is a living proof.
If benefit of doubt is not given for what he really meant by uttering such word and meaning of an autonomy, I agree he should face the full wrath of the sedition law.
He should with immediate effect gives his real version of what he meant when uttering such word and promising autonomy in Bumi Kenyalang.
Sorry Raffick,
I am in defence of Azmin. In fact, it’s been overdue to Sarawak & Sabah. You can say that Azmin has over promised himself. I disagree with you on Azmin in committing highest treason.
First of all, there is no Malaysia without the formation of Sarawak, Sabah, Singapore & Malay in 1963. Hence, it explains why Sabah & Sarawak requires West Malaysia to have our stamps ready while entering those states. We need to apply for work permits to work in Sabah/Sarawak
It’s enshrined in the 16 or 20 points within the constituition. Well, it’d be a disaster for Sarawak to secede from Malaysia…..Without legitimate rights for Sarawak & Sabah is a big no no.
Perhaps, Azmin should have restructured his election campaign, focussing in providing well distributed development to Sarawak. Not the lopsided one as practised by Taib Mahmud, PBB led government.
Raffick,
Furthermore, there is no such thing as a united Malaya. Malaya was made up of federated & unfederated malay states. With certain provinces or states being changed hand.
Come to think of it…..Singapore really belongs to Temenggong or Riau Sultan. Worst still it’s Raffles who recognised the legitimacy of that Temenggong as Sultan of Johore….In exchange of Singapore…..It’s the absence of strong documentations that Singapore run Pedra Branca…..Plus, Najib count himself extremely lucky when he managed to get 60% of 99 year leasehold land…..
If I were Lee Hsien Loong, I would force KTM to stop train services over a period & buy back land from KTM at S$1……Hahaha
Raffick,
Before, you rattle the hornet nest of the very deprived East malaysians……Read this
1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20-point_agreement_(Sabah)
The sarawak 18 point agreement more or less the same. Don’t insult the Sarawakians & Sabahans over their legitimate rights….Azmin Ali has been singing to their tune. I expect BN would follow suit very soon as RPK has mentioned that hung parliament is possible……Me disagree with RPK….Me point RPK to the failure of LibDem…..RENEGATING ON THEIR PROMISES ON TUITION FEE….
Unbelievable response. There seems to be no boundary of partisan politics. Even nationhood is up for grab.
I think we need a total reeducation of the constitution among our people. We have already agreed who has what jurisdiction and powers under our constitution. Each state has been given its own powers. Nothing more. Nothing less. 20 points are encapsulated in our constitution. The way forward is to unite, forge forward and by our own freewill and consent forget the differences.
As written earlier, PR has gone ballistic in separating our country. Here suggesting autonomy to sarawak and earlier for kelantan and kedah to implement islamic criminal law earlier than and separately from other states. What have we become?
I appeal to all of you to come to our senses. History has shown autonomy call has led to war and disintegration of states. Whoever call for autonomy is a betrayal of the highest order to our nation. Whoever call for autonomy for mere political expedient should be expelled from our country not only because he has no loyalty to our country but also for sheer stupidity in creating unwarranted animosity.
Dear Doc n Ellese,
Pls slow down a little. Dont be too quick to point others as traitors. We all love our country and we contribute to our nation in our own ways.
Autonomy is not a dirty word nor is it asking for secession or independance. There many autonomous regions in the world among many countries. Check here for more details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_area
Safe for further clarification from Azmin Ali, I read Azmin’s statement of autonomy within the confines of the 20 n 18 points agreement with Sabah and Sarawak respectively. These are legitimate agreements and we should all agree to uphold agreements that we had conciously entered.
Lets not get into history that is not applicable for the current subject matter. Which territory belonged to who at which point in time is an unending debate. What is specific and relevant for us is how Malaysia was formed. The enjoining of Sabah and Sarawak were subject to the 1963 Agreements.
Doc, you asked, “Isn’t Sarawak being ruled by Sarawakians at the moment?” Yes and No. The chiefs of Police, Immigration, MACC, Customs and many other top civil services are helmed by Malays from Peninsula. There are lots of resentment to this because the 1963 Agreement specifies it should be otherwise.
There is always cause and effect. Kelantan is pushed to rethink about the Federation because their rights are being curtailed. A good example is the Oil and Gas royalty. Thus, its not about the rakyat being partisan or being traitors. Its the cry for help to listen to them.
Btw, about Hududs…. I agree with you Ellese.
Update from Baru Bian’s blog
http://www.barubian.net/2010/12/breaking-news-janji-azmin-kepada.html
PKR de factor leader Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, DAP supremo Lim Kit Siang and Nasharudin Mat Isa of PAS signed an agreement in September (2010) that pledges to grant autonomy to Sabah and Sarawak should Pakatan Rakyat capture Putrajaya at the next GE13th.
YB Azmin was only reiterating a promise that was already made on Malaysia Day on 16th September, 2010 in Sabah.
Also reported here on Sept 17, 2010
http://pasabah.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/full-autonomy-for-sabah-pledge-by-pakatan-chiefs/
http://penerangandppns.blogspot.com/2010/09/full-autonomy-for-sabah-pledge-by.html
You are still subscribing to this notion of autonomy and justifying one.
I don’t understand for the life of me why you cannot respect the constitution. I dont understand why you cannot refer to the constitution. We’ve already come to an agreement on all the 20 points in the constitution. Everybody’s position has been etched in stone/paper and protected. Each state has agreed to their position. Kindly tell me why we need to amend the constitution? Which part of power and jurisdiction you want to amend. Don’t refer only to 20 points but not the constitution. Justify. I don’t understand this manner of justification by personality. If kit siang Anwar and hadi ask us to jump in the lake we also jump is it? No. Justify and tell me why?
If you don’t intend to amend the constitution, then don’t use autonomy. It’s misleading and wrong.
And further please be mindful of kit siang ever famous motto Malaysian first. We should be pushing for intergration. We should encourage more interaction between the states. Less of this state parachiolism. Where it’s already under Sarawak civil service it’s fine to be sarawakians. Where it’s wholly under federal, let’s mix and match. Let’s have more integration. An army is to protect the state but the nation. Police and firemen is to serve the nation. So let’s move on commonalities. Isn’t this what it means by putting Malaysian first? Not sarawakians first? Not kelantanese first? Not kedahan first? Kit siang and pr suddenly forget about this ke?
Politicians doublespeak. I’ve written many times they change value and principles due to the people. We want leaders. Leaders with courage to tell us also the limits though not necessarily popular. leaders who put nation first above all else. Leaders who stick to what is right and wrong. We follow leaders and not politician. At the moment Malaysia only have politicians. Do don’t follow blindly.
Autonomy ( in the plain meaning of the word) is not the way forward. It does not solve anything. It’s regressing. Let’s forge on common grounds. Let’s focus on improvement in quality of our life. Let’s do the right thing which is beneficial for all.
Erratum:
An army is NOT to protect the state but the nation.
Ellese,
I think you are not getting the point.
Yes, we should refer to the constitution but not just in letter. Th fact is, the federal government is not implementing what was agreed upon in letter and in spirit.
You don’t have to change the constitution to give the East Malaysians what is due to them. All you have to do is implement the agreed points.
Do you get it? Since 1963, the UMNO-led federal government have never fully implemented the agreed points. That is the contention here.
Should PR form the next federal government, they don’t have to amend the constitution, they just have to implement it, again, IN LETTER and SPIRIT.
Then you are confused in using the term autonomy. It’s not. The term necessarily imply an increase in state power. Some even argue full
autonomy which leads to cessation and full independence.
If you want improvement in governance and administration say so. This is your right. You can change the government as you please. I am not against such right. But this is not asking for autonomy.
You must now realise not all the points have been clearly stated in our constitution. If you can accept it’s been negotiated we can move forward on the discussion. The base doc must always be our consti.
No, I am not confused with the word autonomy. You may be surprised at what I have done in my life to work on autonomies for different countries within the OIC.
But that’s not the point. If you care to read what I first wrote, I said thus:
“I agree, Azmin should clarify to the public but I do know that what he meant here is, at least the priority, to ensure that all government agencies – Immigration, JPN, et al – are headed by the local peeps.”
For a constitutional expert, why are you so paranoid about the word autonomy? Contrary to what you have written, autonomy DOESN’T necessarily mean “an increase in state power”. I think it is your goodself who’s confused, if you don’t mind me saying so.
And as far as those who argue that autonomy could lead to cessation and independence, they are either living in the past or haven’t travelled much outside the country. Such things don’t happen in the current world anymore. Unless there is war or a genocide of some kind, such cessation no longer happen because bodies like the UN need to come in for it to happen. Moreover, it is clearly stipulated in the 20 point agreement that there won’t be any secession from the Federation.
It is not just “improvement in governance and administration” as you point out. It had far reaching consequences than that. I really think you need to understand what was agreed upon and what transpired. For example, do you know how much Sabah received from the federal government versus how much it contributes? I suggest you need to research more on what actually happened before you continue with your adamant rationale.
If you want improvement in governance and administration say so. This is your right. You can change the government as you please. I am not against such right. But this is not asking for autonomy.
After all said and done, I agree with your last comment when you wrote that “not all the points have been clearly stated in our constitution.” The constitution has been amended many times to suit what BN wants; is it so wrong then to amend the constitution to do what is right?
Habib
Then it even scares me further! The whole PR top guns are supporting and creating this autonomy confusion!
Habib
We are one nation and should promote cross integration between states. I know many sarawakian are top guns in peninsula. My own neighbor, a sarawakian is a top gun in petronas. Former DG Health prior to Ismail Merican is a sarawakian, DG education once from sarawak. Former Armed Forces Dental corp Chief is from Sarawak. Bakri Zinin will be in line to be the IGP, he is also from east malaysia. Btw, what about Idris Jala what post is he holding now. There are many more..
Point is we must move forward as one nation and encouraged integration and not continue widening the gaps. I believe the POA 18/20 has not been breached. It is still intact.
drrafick,
well said.
Which part of the POA 18/20 is not being practiced at the moment? Please advice
I think the use of the word “Autonomy” is very wrong. Why AA said “Autonomy” is confusing. Sarawak has been practising the POA 18 since she joined Malaysia. The state needs improvement in good administration and governance though. The State is rich as there are abundance in natural resources but the rakyat is still poor . However, look at the many rich politicians and tycoons in and from Sarawak and you know the people in power and the crooked businessmen are sucking the State wealth for personal gains. That’s all that is needed to reform Sarawak- a change to a better administration with good governance. If BN cannot do that than PR should take over.
Raffick,
What’s the official religion for both states? While I disagree with PAS clamouring for Hudud law to be practicised in the near future (Kinda impossible without 2/3 majoority). Point 1 of agreement
Raffick,
What happened to the ban on the import of Indonesia bible into Sarawak? Why do we have doa recital in Sarawak state assembly when the official religion specify otherwise? Guess why I say PAS should stay away from Sabah & Sarawak.
Raffick,
How many Sabahan & Sarawakian hold top civisl servant posts? Point 8 Borneosiation?
Point 11 : Control over Tariff & Finance. Borneo states should have right to control their own finance.
Raffick,
We have seen the BN government took full control of Oil & Gas…..They have just given the borneo states 5%. What happen to the 2 blocks given away just like that to Brunei without consultation? Don’t you think that it’s worst than your abandoned housing issues……
I have plenty more to continue
Raffick,
The fact that Malaysia is an artificial nation created by amalgation of Sabah, Sarawak, Singapore & Malaya. Brunei might have joined in if not because less favourable benefits extracted……
perhaps, we should ask RPK in UK how devolution in UK have worked wonders……Wales has far more funding regionally than all malaysian states combined….
“..fact that Malaysia is an artificial nation..”
If one goes back far enough into history, which nation is not an artificial one? I have never read anywhere that our earth was created with fences and boundaries.
just as Rafick says…..Do read history objectively
Then why are you Applying selective history and disregard our constitution?
Ellese,
Notice why I seldom replying to your message. Sometimes when some people are so opiniated, no matter how logical reasons would not knock sense in you
First of all, which consituition are you talking about? The original one or the current one kenna changed 600 over times.
Worst still some clowns are using the Article 153 to justify Ketuanan melayu when teh very tex itself never specify so…..Please take note Singapore has exactly the same wordings.
Funny thing is according to perverted logic some folks including Mahathir himself, it meant different thing in different country even when the wordings are the same.
Ellese,
Just look at the parliament proceedings…..Tell me if BN has followed any proper parliamentary procedures…….
Do you really know the conseuquencies of the Perak recent amendment on its constituition without 2/3 majority?
Even the simple thing BN can’t even do……..Do wonder why Sabah/Sarawak clamouring for deserved autonomy
Dear looes,
ok I take you on the constitutional aspect. Your reading is way off. You blame mahathir of misinterpreting but you do the same.
You seemed to despised the amendments made to our constitution. You mention 600. But don’t think you know what it means. For instance to make changes to affect the admission of Sabah Sarawak and Singapore there are 118 amendments. These 600 changes include consequential and technical amendments. Our constitution is much more detailed than the US. It even prescribed number of judges which must change according to time. So to be contemptuous of our consti because of consequential and technical amendments is wholly misguided.
How you should argue is that you oppose certain amendments because it affecs the rights of Sabah and Sarawak. But you fail to do this as I think you are not even ware what’s in our constitution. I don’t think you even realise that amendments affecting Sabah and Sarawak special powers require their own consent. if you are focus and objective you should be able to tell me which amendments in the constitution that you’re objecting. Don’t ramble without specifics and substantiation.
P.s. If you want to continue please open a new thread.
Another excerpt of posting by Shad, the constitutional jurist:
Secession: Can these states change their mind and seek independence? The answer is simple and blunt. No state has a right to secede from the Federation. Our destinies are intertwined and any differences must be settled through negotiation and compromise. Contrary to what is believed, Singapore did not secede. It was expelled by amendments to the 1957/1963 Constitution……
…….It must be borne in mind, however, that tensions between federal and state governments are commonplace in all federations. Malaysia is fortunate that these tensions have rarely reached open discord or hostilities. Forty-seven years of association between peninsular Malaysia and Sabah and Sarawak have brought many benefits to all sides.
Besides vastly expanding Malaysia’s territories and economic potential, Sabah and Sarawak have augmented Malaysia’s pluralism and diversity and they provide Peninsular Malaysia with a commendable example of inter-ethnic and inter-religious harmony that we could do well to emulate.
In turn, the Federation of Malaysia saved Sarawak from the threats of communism and the designs of Sukarno’s Indonesia. There has been uninterrupted peace and progress, happiness and harmony.
Despite all our problems, there is no reason to believe that the spirit of accommodation that animated the body politic in 1957 and in 1963 cannot continue for a long, long time. “
I am not good at football. Hockey and squash Yes..