I have written several pieces on TBH via my CSI series since his untimely death. Some even suggested that I should compile my writings into a book and published it. Going by the latest development, it seems I could write another chapter on the subject matter.
I was totally lost for words when the alternative media highlighted about the potential suicide note that was found on the late TBH. This morning when I read the news and the statement by the AG, a sense of disbelieve mixed with distrust and sadness overwhelmed my emotions. I am very angry. Despite that I was happy to see that the Malaysian Chronicles find it fit to use the image that I had labelled in my blog for their write up. I wished they had asked for my permission first.
At the time when the AG Chambers reputation is at the lowest ebb and sliding coupling with the uncertainties and strongly defensive trials surrounding Anwar, the latest revelation made it sink into a very deep pit. It is probably beyond salvation.
The MACC efforts in the past few months in trying to revive the public confidence have simply gone to waste. I felt sorry for the new MACC Chief as he has to address this new piece of information. Not withstanding, the police reputation has also been tarnished further.
If I am a policeman or an officer with the AGC, I would have been embarrassed to wear the uniform in public. In fact I would deny vehemently that I work for the AG. That is how embarrassed I felt over the whole scenario.
It is disheartening to note that 18 months after the death such piece of information suddenly surfaced. Is the AG implying that the police investigation team is so sloppy that they did not examine the deceased private effects which were in their possession? Are they so sloppy that missed out such an important piece of information that the I/O discovered it 2 months after TBH died? Which level headed Malaysian will believe that such a note is authentic?
The public expect a decent answer on why the matter was not brought to light when it was found. Whether it is authentic or otherwise, some information should have surfaced. It was reported that rumours has been circulating that Ezam is aware of such information. How did Ezam know something that public nor the defence team knew? Does Ezam has access to the investigation materials that no one else has or could it be that he is he a party to the scheme (or scam) of the sudden appearance of such note?
Gobind is right when he says that the revelation of this information in the early stage would have an impact on the inquest. It must also be appreciated that it would have had a different impact on public perception all together. Concealing such information for 16 moths after it was found without a decent and acceptable explanation will not go well with the thinking population of this country.
Can anyone blame the public for thinking that The AG, The Police and the MACC is colluding in this matter? The AG latest action had invited negative public opinion towards themselves. It will enhance the people hatred towards BN and in particular towards UMNO (since most people believe that these agencies are under the thumb of the government)
Sad as it is, the ruling government is slipping fast on the scale popularity which is already limited. People say that RPK (Malaysia Today) is bad for business but the latest development suggest that it is 100X far more worse. Is Malaysian ever safe in the hand of the authorities? This is something that people has to ponder all the way to the 13th General Election.
Hai Pelangi,
2. PKFZ= Dato’ mana pulak?. Berapa jumlah RM yg dikatakan tu?.
http://truthabout-pkfz.blogspot.com/
Ada sikit butiran untuk semua nikmati.
Hai Pelangi,
Kalau begitu macam mana ada ‘personality’ politik opposisi dan lain personality tertentu yg dibebaskan oleh Makahmah Persekutuan ?. Dan juga ada yang menang dalam civil suit dan dibayar ratusan ribu.
- Janganlah bila menang kes baru adil, kalah kes terus tuduh tak adil. Jangan set satu precedent baru pulak.
// Bukannya semua kes menerima perhatian atau pengaruh pihak tertentu. Kalau gitu, habis la.
2. PKFZ= Dato’ mana pulak?. Berapa jumlah RM yg dikatakan tu?.
// Itu jawapan bagi mereka yang mengetahuinya…
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/04/09/rm46-billion-pkfz-scandal-5-questions-ong-tee-kiat-must-now-answer/
3. Perwaja = Kalau bab mendiang Eric, beliau telah menang kes sebelum meninggal.
// Ramai memang dah agak keputusan muktamadnya cuma masa pengumuman yang tidak diketahui.
4. Aelnino jangan buat keputusan muktamad di makahmah sendiri, sebelum keputusan muktamad dicapai.
// Kita sama-sama tengok la keputusan muktamad dikemudian hari untuk kes-kes menarik perhatian dunia, ok.
Hello folks,
For more clues, just read thoroughly again the statements issued by the AG Chambers (released anonymously – without name or signature).
example .. As regards the note, the Attorney-General’s Chambers was earlier briefed by the investigating officer that he conducted a thorough search after being advised by the psychiatric (sic) that ordinarily there would be a note left in a suicide case….
Hah ….statement issued in haste… revealed another bloop ?
Folks, Rewind back … From day 1 ( Jul 2009) after the body was discovered, CPO himself had made press statements to the effect..investigation will look into various aspects..including suicide , homicide, etc.
(go search News archives of Star, Malay Mail, NST, etc)
Now only start searching for suicide note AFTER being advised by psychiatric ???
Aiyoh !! Good try, lah….. Are the rakyat dumb or what ?
(btw, wondering… WHY AG Chambers issued statement ??
Tan and his merry men were appointed by the authorities(sic) to head the team to assist the Coroner in the Inquest. Logically, Tan should be the one to issue any statement, if any required, No ? )
Hmmm. 18 August ( 5 days to go) …… plenty of time to hold coord meetings amongst all the prosecution players involved…
to fine tune all strategies … to defend the NOTE.
Think, folks !! In a genuine suicide case, if any note is to be left behind, it would be placed in an easy to find location. Like example shirt pocket, etc. NOT concealed in a sling bag.
Sorry lah, merry men from the CHAMBERS (Fabrication unit?), we are all dumb readers. So please enlighten us…how to be smarter.
Terima Kasih, and enjoy your behind-the-scenes discussion. But please, don’t come out with another discovery such as …. ” ANOTHER new note was found wrapped with plastic cover on the roof top of the building ” after SOMEONE higher up ordered – GET the truth, leave no stone unturned!!
ciao !
If u think it’s utterly incredibly stupid then gobind should have no problem arguing it out and win this argument outright.
But don’t think gobind will follow your line of argument. Unless he can see some value the argument whether tan or ag issue the statement does not have any consequence. Is it wrong for ag to issue statement as AG is principally handling the case. I think it’s a non-relevant argument whether ag or tan unless gobind can show otherwise.
Also on finding the notes after psych informed him, you need more to argue that the notes are fabricated. If he said that’s what happenEd and stoutly stood by it, how do you argue it out? It does not prove much individually but probably gobind can combine this fact with others to cast aspersion on the officer’s competency.
I think you’re still speculating too much to be deriving to a reasonable conclusion. Your argument probably can easily be answered back.
What Gobind should do is to attack on authenticity. Also the trail of evidence ie that the officer does not have possession of the bag during the whole relevant period. Should put AG that at the beginning there was no note and get other officer to admit they found none. Then at least put ag on defensive to prove one and no one has access to the bag but the officer. Say AG can prove then argue on the officers character. AG in anyway need to show this trail first. Let’s see what gobind does then. He may have more facts than I do and approach it differently.
Ellese,
With due respect to you, refering to your last para, We must bear in mind that as the ATTORNEY GENERAL OF MALAYSIA he would have scrutinised all that relevant angles and aspects before forwarding the said note. And he put forward to the Coroner Court to decide whether to admit the said note or not.
That’s why the other party seems “disturbed” very much.
Now the admission of the NOTE is in the hand of the Coroner and whether to accept or otherwise the new found evidence (document) in this inquest is solely the Coroner’s decision after hearing legal arguments from both side.
I am a bit confused when you said that the Officers character as an argument point. What is a character got to do with the “finding and authencity of the note “?. Please enlightent.
Somebody needs to tender the notes. You see you can’t suddenly introduce the notes. AG has to show it was there in the first place and just was not tendered. AG has to prove the notes come from the bag. Now AG need to intro the chain of events. He needs to bring the officer to testify that the notes were in the bag. Now Gobind must break this chain and show there’s a possibility it’s been inserted by an outsider for example. Alternatively he can argue the person who found the notes as not reliable. He can then take opportunity to attack the persons character.
Now I may be wrong. Frankly I have not been In an inquest before but typically this is how evidence would be introduced. Otherwise I’m seeing too much of Boston legal, ally mcbeal and LA law combined.:-)
And another thing. I am not sure the evidence has been admitted. Dr raffick said yes but I thought it’s not yet. That’s the premise of my argument above. my understanding is that The judge allows the submission and now ag needs to bring in the proof.
kawan2, kes-kes “besar” TBH, PKFZ, Sodomi 2 memang menarik perhatian rakyat serta dunia.
Sampai sekarang, kes-kes tersebut menunjukkan kepada dunia, kehakiman negara “dipengaruhi” oleh pihak berkuasa tertentu. Bukannya berdasarkan ketelusan dan keadilan kehakiman.
Contohnya, PKFZ dah ada seorang Dato yang menyatakan beliau membayar sekian-sekian RM kepada seseorang. Tapi, sampai sekarang apa jadi dengan isu ini?
Keduanya, semua kes besar-besar selalunya mengambil masa bertahun-tahun atau abad sebelum tiba-tiba hilang aje dalam sejarah kehakiman negara. Satu contoh ketara Perwaja… sampai pegawai penyiasat pergi luar negara..habis duit rakyat aje. Akhirnya, ramai dah agak “keputusan” muktamat.
Tak payah kita semua pening kepala mau pikir apa akan berlaku, sebabnya “keputusan muktamat” sudahpun ditentukan. Cuma masa untuk pengumuman aje belum sampai. Betul tak?
Aelnino,
1. Di ”pengaruhi” pihak pihak berkuasa tertentu.Bukannya berdasarkan ketelusan dan keadilan kehakiman.
- Kalau begitu macam mana ada ‘personality’ politik opposisi dan lain personality tertentu yg dibebaskan oleh Makahmah Persekutuan ?. Dan juga ada yang menang dalam civil suit dan dibayar ratusan ribu.
- Janganlah bila menang kes baru adil, kalah kes terus tuduh tak adil. Jangan set satu precedent baru pulak.
2. PKFZ= Dato’ mana pulak?. Berapa jumlah RM yg dikatakan tu?.
3. Perwaja = Kalau bab mendiang Eric, beliau telah menang kes sebelum meninggal.
- Memanglah kes kes besar memakan masa bertahun tahun atau berabad seperti kes kes besar seperti sodomi, bunuh dan sbagainya yg mana hukumannya adalah berat. Oleh itu proses perbicaraan akan mengambil masa lama. Lagi-lagi kalau tertuduh nak bersuluh diwaktu siang.
4. Aelnino jangan buat keputusan muktamad di makahmah sendiri, sebelum keputusan muktamad dicapai.
Ellese,
From what I understand from reading the main stream and alternative cyber media, the so called note which appeared in the trial at this stage had been discuss (deliberately) by the Coroner,Prosecution and the lawyers representing the late TBH family and the Selangor state goverment in the chamber.
Logically, the dpp would have told that the latest finding (note) and intended to produce it to the court.The other party may have some objection because of it’s late ”circumtances” and it’s entry at this stage.
Then maybe the Coroner agree to hear legal argument from both side in the open court before coming to a decision whether to allow this note as a document/evident at this stage and after considering the authencity and relevancy of it in the Inquest.
Maybe this allowing make the “storming out from court” just like walking out from parlimen session in protest happen the other day.
* Anyway, I as a layman thinks that the authencity of the note is paramount ,others are mere technicalities *.
Ellese/PS
(1) When coroner an item to be admitted as evidence in chambers, it is considered as has been tendered. On the 18th Aug the AG will do the due process having the material evidence recorded as being admitted. The discussion in chambers is for the decision that it is to be admitted or otherwise. In this aspect the coroner has made his decision.
(2) After being admitted, it will then be argued on the basis of relevancy or others
Looks more like a B-Grade horror movie to me, when it ends you’ll see the monster or what have you.. opening the eyes again
Just like Anwar’s sodomy conspiracy which is full of holes the goons responsible aren’t very smart. They are just brazen and daring but not smart. Their downfall is that they imagine people to be as stupid as them.
Any rational person would know how risky it is to fake a suicide note. It is very difficult copy the handwriting, writing style and personal expression of the person. Now Teoh’s family has come out to say that the handwriting and signature differs by a wide margin.
Would a person leave a suicide note apologizing to his boss? Aaiyoh… you write a suicide note to your loved ones la, not to your boss!
In fact so stupid is this strategy that one is tempted to use the argument, “it must be real because nobody can be so stupid!”
This argument doesn’t water. Not with the top echelons of power. They earn their positions not from their intellect but from skin colour, political backstabbing, ball carrying, cable pulling and influence peddling. The frightening thing is that we are governed by them.
ken,
totally agree with you, why leave suicide note to boss and not love ones? tak masuk akal. Also usually people committing suicide will leave the note in a place easily found and not take the I.O. 2 months to discover it?
They think we are fools?
remember the teenager shot dead by police in Shah Alam and they said they found a parang in the car booth? Yes ,they plant and fabricate evidences to suit them. Our Law enforcement agencies and the AG department must have a secret sinister section to brainstrom ideas ,no matter how ridiculous , to counter the argument that MACC killed TBH. Who know, in the near future they “suddenlly” found a witness to testify she/he saw TBH climbed out of the window and jump. Throw in a few $$$$ and they will find the willing witness.If they have to they will probably also throw the kitchen sink in as well.
This Barisan government skinks!
Time for change.
Cheers,
foo
Dear foo,
why do you say the evidence was fabricated in shah alams case? There is definitely contrarian explanation of events which makes it confusing and to an extent mystifying. But fabrication of evidence I have not read. Could you elaborate which evidence.
Hi Ellese, So you think the Note was really left by TBH? Tell us what you think. You said you have not read about fabrication. OK, then are you saying that the Note is Real? Or It is neither real nor fabricate? Then what is it?
1. Do you believe I/O first could not find anything at the sling bag but found it after two months?
2. Do you believe I/O need a prompt from phycologist that a suicide person will leave a suiside note so he go back and do search on the sling bag. What a Stupid I/O we have?
3. Do you believe that as the some of the Note was written in Chinese. I/O could not understand so just put it aside?
4. Why don’t they show the note to TBH family to confirm on the handwritting. You think it is perfectly logical.
5. Do you agree the way AG leak the evidence out before tender it in court. Why he need to do it. Do you agree with it?
6. So you also belive you can bring a sling bag around in MACC office? Sit on a quite place, pen your suicide note with no one notice?
So with your powerful law knowlegde and maybe experice in practising law. Kindly share with us what you think on this common sense issue.
CK
Dear ck,
You mistook me. I ask for proof of fabrication for the shah land case you referred to in your writing and not tbh.
On the notes I have no clue whatsoever. At best we all can speculate. Any conjecture I think will not lead to the truth. My position is to wait for more facts and evidence before jumping to a conclusion.
But from my reading there’s yet a credible evidence or proof of murder or push. The motive for the push is also not clear and discernable. it’s in the same position of suicide theory of which the motive is also unclear. ProbaBly a third theory can come out like say accidental but these are pure conjecture which does not add value at this moment.
Srry ck. My iPhone change spelling shah alam case to shah land case.apol.
Again another mistake. You were replying to my comments on foo’s write up and not yours. The shah alam case was referred to by foo and not by you.
foo,
I am not supprised if a person involving in politics leaving a suicide note appogizing to his boss.Don’t you know that some party MP/ADUN has to take a vow saying that if they “betray” the party then automatically his/her wife/husband deemed had been divorced.
Ken,
full of conjecture. My view is AG should have seen the perception it created notwithstanding the law permitting it. From what I read it’s probably unnecessary as forensic probability so far does not point towards murder. Yet to hear from the Thai patho though. But the other external patho seems very credible with no interest in the matter. As said earlier AG should let the dogs lie.
In any event what are the holes you’re referring to in anwar’s current case?
Just like Anwar’s sodomy conspiracy which is full of holes the goons responsible aren’t very smart. They are just brazen and daring but not smart. Their downfall is that they imagine people to be as stupid as them.
Any rational person would know how risky it is to fake a suicide note. It is very difficult copy the handwriting, writing style and personal expression of the person. Now Teoh’s family has come out to say that the handwriting and signature differs by a wide margin.
Pelangisenja : Then the issue and accusation the so said note is fake is out.The family member or others opinion are not weigh the expert opinion on that subject matter.
Would a person leave a suicide note apologizing to his boss? Aaiyoh… you write a suicide note to your loved ones la, not to your boss!
Pelangisenja: I am not supprised if a person involving in politics leaving a suicide note appogizing to his boss.Don’t you know that some party MP/ADUN has to take a vow saying that if they “betray” the party then automatically his/her wife/husband deemed had been divoced.
In fact so stupid is this strategy that one is tempted to use the argument, “it must be real because nobody can be so stupid!”
Pelangisenja : Only emotionally or irrational people will say that knowing the note is fake yet it is being used as a strategy.
This argument doesn’t water. Not with the top echelons of power.
Pelangisenja : Your argument doesn’t water but the said note matter.
Not with the top echelons of power. They earn their positions not from their intellect but from skin colour, political backstabbing, ball carrying, cable pulling and influence peddling. The frightening thing is that we are governed by them.
Pelangisenja : Your last para shows your real intention. And not because you want justice in this case to prevail.
I WAS JUST IMAGINING THE WILD.
IF SUPPOSE THE MUCH EXPECTED FORENSIC EXPERT CAME IN AND TESTIFIED THAT AFTER WITNESSING AND GOING THROUGH THE REPORT SHE NOW FIND THAT IT CONTRADICT HER EARLIER TESTIMONY.
WHAT WILL THE SPECULATION AND ACCUSATION ON HER WILL BE?.
* Spinning never ends in good. *
Dear Dr.
Your reader Ellese seems to be very well verse with the law… I am just a lay man. Yes I do agree that it is Ok to introduced evidence late in the trail if the new evidence has been found and useful to the trial.
But don’t Ellese found that the statement by AG is totally not convincing. The so call Note has been knowlege of AG for so long… almost one year. You think it’s logical?
Another point no body can understand is how TBH can write a Note. The moment you enter MACC they would have taken all your belonging! Tell me that TBH allow to bring in his slig bag? Nonsense! If the slig bag was with the security all the while, how can TBH put in the Note. Where he got the paper and pen to do it. MACC provide you a pen for souvinier when you kena interview.
The news said he written to his boss! What a joke, lousier taht TV drama script. If he is leaving this world by jumping down himself. He will leave a note for the love he love most. His wife or parents not his boss lah….
How big is the sling bag that the first time the officer can find it but after two months he tried again and found the Note. This is the biggest case in Malaysia last year. The I/O is just so lousy…
So the whole drama is just to add more spin to the theory that TBH has commit suicide. As the news has been leak to all the MSM. So what is AG up to….
There is none of his business in this case. He even appoint an outsider to represent AG.
All this smell rats…. How to believe them. Lies and more lies.
CK
Dear CK,
I am critical of AG also. See my earlier posting.
No matter how ,we are going to loose.
But we will try to give a good fight until the end.
Whether in Iran or In China , the underdogs fighting against the authorities will seldom win.
Like in shogun movie ” To rebel is wrong unless you win “
Hello, Dr and all folks out there.
Latest development… go read Malaysia Chronical …
If only a copy is uploaded somewhere, then those close to late Teoh may also shed some light on its handwriting.
Bye.
Something to ponder very deeply about…
Will a third world war using nuclear weapon occur in our lifetime?
You decide.
Points to ponder:
First, they closed the door that gave access to the place where TBH was found when usually they did not.
Second, upon learning that someone had died in their vicinity, the MACC official went to Putrajaya first to inform his superior instead of making a police report.
Third, the de facto law minister declared that it was a suicide case even before proper investigation was done.
Fourth, they employed a pathologist whose office was raided just months ago.
Fifth, their two pathologists suddenly took leave together just before they were to testify at the start of the inquest. Then they went to great length to insist that it was suicide.
Sixth. the other pathologist who insisted that it was not suicide was mysteriously followed when she came for the second autopsy. Later, she would refuse to testify citing ‘political pressure’.
And now, when the inquest on its last stage, suddenly this suicide note makes its grand appearance to shoot down all other arguments by the other pathologist.
Now, after all these, don’t you find that something fishy is going on?
depa ini tak tengok CSI betul-betul. itu pasal la sekarang jadi pula isu ini. Nanti kalian tengok, kita punya AG, Ketua Polis mintak hantar pegawai mereka (tak pasti anak bini ada ikut) pergi US of A lawatan sambil belajar CSI.
Dah kes ini sudah lebih 1 tahun lamanya, tiba-tiba ada pula kertas nota…nanti tambah lagi satu tahun apa lagi akan keluar. kalah david coperfield
All this while, their hired forger expert must have been practising daily (for 10 months) to forge the note in Teoh Beng Hock’s handwriting until 100% perfect before AG can announce.
By the time Gobind & rest check, it will be 100% perfect Teoh Beng Hock own handwriting – no doubt about it.
tillie, you have a valid point of view. The inordinate time taken to reveal this “note” provides strength to you view that a forger could have been hired to perfect the copy.
If this is true, then this master forger had better watch his back! He could be C4ed anytime to silence him/her.
… and elsewhere Bung Mokhtar Radin the foul-mouthed MP from Kinabatangan who has no respect for women, got his jail term commuted to just another RM1,000 fine, that makes it a total of RM2,000, for committing poligamy!
Remember Katrina got fined RM5,000 and sentenced to 5 strokes of the rotan for drinking beer in public? (later changed to 1 month community service by the Tunku Mahkota of Pahang?)
Is there 2 sets of law too in the Syarie Court? One for UMNO warlords and the other for common folks like us?
RM 2000… that means he still retain his MP title which means no by election..
Interesting, reading the Judgement (Malay Mail)
“”If he (Bung) was jailed, his wives and children would come by hardship and indirectly they would be affected, possibly giving rise to social problems.”
Mukhyuddin also held that as an MP and educated person, Bung should have known the law, however, the trial judge cannot bind him to that knowledge as Bung was not involved in the formation of the said Shariah law.”
Zizzie must be quite charming,eh, compared to Katrina ?
2 standards ? Nah…. the Judge is being compassionate that’s all, right ?
Lucky fellow! hope he balik kampong and share some time with his 1st wife and kids.
Just a matter of perspective, shariah drinking offence is regarded as more severe than polygamy without consent.
I think your comparison is incorrect. Why don’t you compare others who have comiitted same offence and being punished more severely. Then we can say there’s two sets of laws.
Ellese,
You are right.
And the amount of fine and jail sentences always differs from one judge everywhere including syariah courts judgement in every state.
*stand to be corrected*
I love this judge and the basis of his judgement
Dear dr,
what pelangi says is correct. Not many realise that under shariah courts theRe is no similar doctrine of stare decisis like our civil courts. that’s where there’s discrepancy in judgement. Judges not bound to follow others. It’s not to say it’s wrong but it’s more like civil law countries. But I think we need some streamlining and the late tan Sri prof Ahmad ibrahim was instrumental in improving the shariah court procedure and structure. It’s still a work in progress.
‘Just a matter of perspective, shariah drinking offence is regarded as more severe than polygamy without consent.’
its like saying adultery is better than drinking offense?
Sorry i am not a muslim, but i dont think this is justified
OLLO,
Mind me, Polygamy without consent and Adultry are two differents issue or offense.
*stand to be corrected*
Dear ollo,
this is where the moral values depart. Certain things are prescribed by different faith and practices and it’s a moral code. Take instance manner of eating. Islam don’t take pork. Hindu meat. And even contemporarily vegan don’t take any form of meat. Everyone has it’s own value and belief. So everyone has it’s own perspective.
Thus for you to say then adultery is better than drinking offense is just like you’re saying the eating habits of each is unjustified according to your prescribed value.
The issue of polygamy in islam is a sensitive one. Much has been written and you may care to read. What’s clear is that it’s permissible but current view even by sisters in islam standard is that it must meet very strict criteria in terms if fairness etc. (we can debate). But what I wish to highlight is that the obtaining of consent does not derive from specific provision in quranic text unlike prohibition of alcohol which is mentioned a few times and thus held morally contemptible. Not to say the requirement of consent is wrong or unfounded under Islamic jurisprudence (I will argue that it is justifiable) but as a moral system drinking is clearly prohibited and form a major moral code for Muslims. The obtaining of consent is not necessarily so. It’s a moral value arising of quite recent from our law.
That’s why the drinking offence is deemed more serious and severe.
polygamy without consent is just as good as committing adultery, consent is not granted in either case. anyways, this is just my viewpoint from logical & practical ways, i am not looking at it from religious view
You must understand that to a muslim adultery and polygamy without consent is not similar.
Let me try to elaborate. To a muslim commission of an adultery is a MAJOR CRIME. Though debatable the mainstream view is that its punishable by death to stoning. (if you dont believe its mainstream view just ask any of your PAS friend). Do you see how the moral value of an act differ from the current western thinking?
Now polygamy is different. As mentioned, generally its permitted. But the current view is that it should not be allowed freely thus putting a restriction such as consent. Its not a MAJOR CRIME offence. The penalty thus is not death.
Thats why when you equate polygamy without consent the same as adultery, to a muslim, its doesnt make sense, be it logically or practically.
Well said
Respect for the judiciary?? On the one hand we have the CJ saying that his system of expediating cases has reduced the backlog at the swearing in ceremony of the new High Court judges. On the other, cases are being postponed because judges are attending the same ceremony!!
Dr,
The AG seems to have a liking for withholding evidence in 2 cases now. First, the Sodomy trial’s refusal to hand over the clinical evidence to the defense team to prepare. Now, holding back the so-called suicide note for months to presumably divert the course of an inquiry. Looks like being more interested in being the judge & jury in both cases instead of letting a proper judge decides after both prosecutor & defense submits on it.
Doesn’t look good at all! CIA has proven able to doctor signatures/letters and the Israelis MOSSAD is a much better at it too. Is it possible APCO is behind.
Don’t know if the above is suitable for print, please advise.
Thanks
Hew CW
Tabiat! or buang tebiat!
nampak gaya kehakiman shariah kita mengalakkan poligami. Saya betul keliru dan pening, kita hadapi masalah buang bayi, anak luar nikah, Jais tangkap basah sini, basah sana tapi kita punya polishtician terang terang kasi bikin ini poligami. Kalau berlaku diluar negara, mamat ini sudah kena berhenti kerja bukan senang senang bayar saman RM2000. Memalukan negara
Eelnino,
Hari tu ada satu mamat politik pembangkang yg kena denda RM2,000 pasal gigit telinga orang. Tak berhenti atau dibuang kerja pun.
Tak ada sapa bising pun!. Tak ada sapa kata memalukan negara pun!.
Dear dr raffick,
though you are entitled to provide your take on an event, I think you should not cross the line of mounting an organized Campaign to influence a proceeding by carrying out the survey. I think it may cross the line of decency and subjudicing the events.
Though I too disgree with the introduction of this late evidence, gobind and I know it’s permitted under the law and has been allowed in the interest of justice. If we take another criminal proceedings such as murder etc. if there is any evidence to proof a persons guilt it must be allowed to be admitted in court and not be suppressed. Now what gobind must do now is challenge it’s admissibility.
Carrying out a survey based on intent to introduce the notes is highly probative and speculative. People will decide more on emotion and perception rather than facts. Truth is cast aside. For example How does one decide the note is created by a third party. It’s conjecture. Even though gobind may prove at the end it’s created by a third party, it does not negate the right to prove. That’s why you may be perceived as mounting a campaign to influence the proceeding in my judgement. And this my friend may cross the law on subjudice and contempt. I may be wrong but just consult your lawyer friend. We should not partake in illegality when we despise one.
My take is as emailed before is that he did not need to do this. It may be called a suppression of evidence but by introducing this late there’s a perception issue that AG must bear in mind. AG should be mindful of this and decide earlier.
On bn, my take is that this tbh case does not promote in any interest of bn in any way. Don’t believe bn or UMNO is related at all unless you provide evidence to the contrary. Without disrespecting tbh, he does not have political value for bn as he was unknown prior to that. At best it’s a folly of MACC. If it’s true then the officer must be brought to justice.
Ellese
(1) You are stretching your imagination too far with the polls. In the actual fact, the government (I know PDRM, Army, Education, Internal sec read my blog daily) would benefit from the polls. It gives the government a window to appreciate the thinking of the people.
(2) People who has been following TBH would have a good factual assessment
(3) On BN involvement.. cant share with you or anyone else.
(4) It is not the I/O fault entirely. The AG was made aware of it as soon as the note was found. This is clear from the statement he made. He had been suppressing evidence. He should be charged
I can agree with you to an extent on the AG. But on the subjudice and contempt proceeding you should look at the other end. Meaning to say that look at the law first and see whether there’s transgression. You can argue that govenment may benefit from it but a trangression is a trangression. Perhaps to have a feel on the law you can google it too.
I think the judiciary in Malaysia is beyond contempt. After the Perak power grab court cases, Anwar’s ongoing sodomy trial and the TBH inquest Malaysian’s perception of the judiciary is at rock bottom. Just when you think it can’t go lower it plumbs new depths of depravity. What contempt are we talking about? We are already giving the court all the “respect” it deserves.
Perhaps you need to be enlightened. Every common law country has subjudice law couple with contempt. It’s to protect the innocent so that an unfair perception of a persons innocence is not formed before all evidence being adduced. In tbh matter as of today the judiciary has not been involved . They have not decided yet.
Dr R- I have never said that the judiciary is involved, For the third time, please and please dont put words in my mouth
So the question now is whether it’s admissble and for gobind to argue it’s not. For your info there has been evidence produces at late stage before in interest of justice. Thus unfair and unfounded for you at this stage to blame the judiciary.
Dr R- The note issue was deliberated in chambers and the “Yang Ariff” has allowed it. That is why AG will put it on the next sitting. The material is now admissible in court.
On peraks case just in case you dont realise it’s highly politicized by all including nizar. If you don’t realise by now nizar condemned sultan for not following ningkans case but he himself never intend and did not follow ningkans. Ningkans says that the dewan should be the determinant place but nizar at all times refused to let dewan decides because he knows he doesn’t have the majority. Funny isn’t it?
Dr R- On Perak I have written many times on the basis of law and morals. You should read all of it. The Sultan has abused the process. His job is to accept or decline an MB. He cannot remove or ask the MB to step down. The matter was not brought to Dewan Negeri because BN is not allowing it.
In submitting a motion to Dewan there is a due process involved. This due process was never initiated. A speaker can decide to allow or deny a motion. In this case it has not reached that level. Bn and sultan has preempted it illegally. It is wrong for you to say Nizar dont want the matter to bring to dewan. The state law allows him to request for dissolution.
As an analogy, a striker have several option when he faced a goal post. He can shoot straight or pass to the guy on the left or to the right or he can dribble all the way. Nizar had the option and he has the right to exercise his options.
Your view demonstrated a highly partisan view. Btw on water, I have asked a friend close to ALIRAN to organize a debate for people to hear the facts and not politics. Keep reading my blog as I will advertise it. hope you and i can meet at the event.
Dear dr,
I was replying to ken. See his commentaries.
I don’t think any person with normal sense of decency can defend the Malaysian judiciary. If Ellese thinks the judiciary is beyond reproach his morality is so screwed up that it is beyond me to convince him otherwise.
To the contrary. There are thousands And thousands of lawyers who still ply their trade in courts. If they have no faith in judiciary they would have left the system. Also hundreds of thousands who still rely on the justice system. The judiciary has improved a lot under CJ Zaki. Ask your litigation friend.
Ellese,
I totally agree to your points in this answer to Ken the learned friend who always make up his mind (conclusion) emotionally.
dear dr
on perak, I think the facts is to the contrary. Nizar knew he lost majority prior to seeing sultan. It’s a public fact. He said in court he didn’t know about it because he hasn’t read the papers or tv. Seems far fetch coz it’s public knowledge.
Also prior to meeting sultan the dewan were controlled by pakatan. The speaker and nizar took all pains to avoid having a sitting.
Now there was certainly an impass. Nizar does not want to go to dewan to vote like any other democratic institution. He knew he has lost it and thus went to sultan to try to dissolve it. ( no right minded person ask for dissolution when you have the majority)
Now if nizar really wants to rely on ningkan’s case, don’t you think he should be honourable enough to follow it. If he seems fit not to follow why in the world he blamed sultan for not following it. Bear in mind ningkan was not the only legal precedent. There are other legal precedent which states a ruler can decide.
My point is this. Nizar should not be a hypocrit blaming sultan for not following ningkan when he himself did not want to follow it when it does not suit him.
Ellese
(1) You either dont understand the analogy that I had written earlier or you simply refuse to understand or you merely wants to be contradictory
(2) It is not about what Nizar knows. Obviously he knew that he does not have majority after the 3 people jumped ship. However matters should be left in Dewan and not dictated by najib and sultan.
(3) Nizar and the speaker was merely playing by the rules of the Dewan which was there since merdeka. The sultan and najib did not. They play by their own rules including which includes removing the speaker.
(4) Many level minded person would agree with me that the SULTAN IS TO BE BLAMED! He had interfered beyond his given authority. I hope if PR wins again, they would amend the state constitution and redefine the power of the Sultan to a level where a standard 1 child can understand.
Dear dr,
1) I must confess that I haven’t read your anology. In any event I followed the event closely at that time and am acquainted with the facts.
Dr R- OK.
2) it’s important what nizar knew as the law is clear. He had to admit he didn’t know in court as otherwise the law requires him to resign.
Dr R- The law does not require him to resign as easy as you say it. Read perak state laws. You can browse my previous writing, A link is provided somewhere. The law says, in the event that majority is loss in the assembly than the natural course must takes its place. Fact remains, majority is loss outside the assembly and not inside the assembly.The Perak SLA must be followed. The sultan is not above it. He is bound by it and he has abuse his powers.
3) to the contrary, Sultan was spot on in law. Prior to the federal court decision of nizar, there is a divergent view even in commonwealth country cases apart from ningkan. If you see sultan azlans declaration he did not fire nizar. By law once you don’t have majority you have to resign. That’s why nizar had to claim he was not aware of it.
Dr R- As explained the majority must be establish in the Dewan and not in some press conference! He is correct in saying that he has not lost the support of the majority in the Dewan. This has not been established via a motion
4) if you say nizar wants to play by the rules and in effect not follow Ningkan and other democratic precedent when there’s a loss of majority it’s up to him. but to argue in court sultan Azlan shah was wrong for not following ningkan but nizar himself never at any time of his political maneuvering apply ningkan smacks hypocracy at it’s worst.
Dr R- Lets agree to disagree
Dear dr,
on the notes issue. You seemed to have knowlege what transpired. Can you allude me to where I can read it..
But I find it strange that the notes has been admitted without witness and in chambers. I actually don’t understand your assertion that the evidence is admissible already and the judge has decided on it. Does this mean gobind will not challenge it’s relevancy, reliability of witness and authenticity of the notes?. If so he is not a good lawyer.
It is in the first news break when the matter when public. The issue was discussed in chambers when AG try to tender the documents. They adjourned and went to chambers for 15 mins. In the chambers, the coroner allowed the AG to submit it to the inquest at the next sitting which I believe is on the 18th Aug 2010
On water why are you arranging it through aliran. They to me has been politically biased.
If you want no political frills discussion I suggest you arrange through the established water NGO. The objective is not to prove whether selangor or federal is right or wrong. That’s political. The objective is to understand the water restructuring exercise, what does it sought to achieve, how to achieve it and what’s the plan to achieve it. Then only plans forward for the water industry. Then you have a full sense where we are and who is playing what. You can know what is kelantans perak and Penang’s position and why it’s like that. Then what we need to solve the selangor problem. We must focus on solution and disregard the politics.
This I believe is out of alirans depth. They have never been involved in water issue as far as I know. They are not water NGO. Get a reputable one to organise.
Ellese
(1) Even before debate starts you have made up your mind. I asked ALIRAN because I know people there. Their role is as the organizer where they have to appoint a moderator. The moderator will pose the same question to both parties. As an organizer, whoever ALIRAN appoint as a moderator will have to do their homework. In a debate both opposing team will be asked the same question and they need to respond. The audience need to be the judge.
Unfortunately, you have close your mind on the issue and even question the moderator neutrality even before the start of the program. Why dont you organize the debate. I will attend and accept it despite knowing your biasness and partisan position on this matter.
Dear dr,
didn’t mean to offend you. My suggestion is to call NGO who is familiar and already well acquainted with the industry as opposed to one which does not. It also avoids perception of partisanship. Say for example UMNO organizes the same format as you intended you will still perceive it as partisan notwithstanding the format. Thus I merely suggest that if you want non-partisanship, the public must see it as such as well. Anyway you are organising it and it’s your call. To be frank I’m not in that capacity. what I can do is proffer to make it more nonpartisan. Also feedback on speakers experience as well as formulation of questions.
Ellese
(1) It does not matter who organize it as long as the moderator and the rules of the debate is acceptable to both parties. Maybe you should ask UMNO to organize it as well. I will ask UMNO BA to do the same.
Hmm. My take is this.
AG need not bring this note at this late stage. Though the law is clear that you can tender evidence at any time, it gave a bad impression. The AG should have been more strategic. From what has transpired that I have read there’s not much evidence he has been pushed. Try as might gobind to push the enveloped of probability, credible foreign expert evidence does not show reasonable probability he has been pushed or a struggle ensued. So AG should have let the dogs lie.
SELAMAT MENJALANI IBADAH PUASA DIBULAN RAMADHAN AL MUBARAK KEPADA SEMUA MUSLIMIN DAN MUSLIMAT.
Hello Dr,
Experiencing some problem visiting your blog – the Engine stalled and frozen up. Nothing can moved on the screen !!
First time- OK lah can accept. 2nd Time – coincident..also can accept ! But more than 4 times ?? Heck !! Too much of coincidents ! Had to completely SHUTDOWN and restart all over.
Anybody else experiencing similar problems accessing this blog ?
Anyway, Dr. What’s the best browser to use for your blog ?
I.E., FireFox , Opera or … ?
Appreciate some responses. Thanks
Oh, forgot to add. Visiting Other sites no such problem at all.
Thanks.
I am using firefox.. maybe you can reboot your computer and see what happens
Like mentioned earlier, it only happened when at your site.
Elsewhere – MSMs, online portals ,etc – No problem.
After total shutdown ( PC and router mains OFF), and Bootup again, PC OK.
But same issue again when over your blog!
Some unknown factors causing all these strange events ???
Hackers or vultures hovering around ?
…. just a suspicion.
Do take care…. to avoid similar incidents like what happened to m2t previously.
As for me …. more of a nuisance and frustration than anything else.
Thanks.
Shock, disbelieve, absurd, anger, appall, astound, awe, bowl over, daze, disgust, dismay, displease, disturb, flabbergast, hit like ton of bricks, horrify, insult, jar, jolt, knock out, nauseate, numb, offend, outrage, overwhelm, paralyze, revolt, rock, scandalize, stagger, startle, stun, stupefy, traumatize, and; unsettle… these are some of the words to describe how I feel. Who is actually power broking the whole affair. Who actually is behind this heinous ‘conspiracy’. Yes I am not stupid, yes I am not brainless. Yes I am not dumb. Yes I am not moronic. Yes I am not thick-headed. You think you can make me lose my mind over it.
To add salt to injury, the NST apparently reported that “The gist of it is, he (TBH) asked his boss to forgive him for having to ‘reveal to MACC many things’ while his statement was taken,”
It this were true, surely MACC would have pounded on Pakatan Aduns, Councillors and MPs by now. The fact that nothing came out after interogating TBH, proves that there was nothing to reveal. This so called “suicide note” is nothing but a concoction by MACC.
BN must think Malaysians are all NUTS to believe such a thing as a suicide note by TBH after he has been dead for so many months and after the court of inquiry had had so many sittings! This will be the last nail to drive into BN’s coffin, BN just COMMITTED SUICIDE just like TBH!!!!!!
I think it wasn’t a suicide note as speculated by the public. Anyway the note has been handed over to TBH’s family so we will know soon.
This “suicide note” can only be regarded as a piece of fabrication even if the experts at the Chemistry Department were to swear on a stack of bibles that it’s TBH’s writing.
If TBH committed suicide, then Altantuya must have blown herself up! TBH was going to be married and had made all necessary wedding arrangements. Why would he go to MACC’s offices then to commit suicide.?Absolute nonsense and poppycock!
The AG should be sacked for not informing TBH’s family about the note last year. They have a right to know instead of it being leaked in UMNO friendly blogs. Also, how did Utusan, Berita etc. get advance knowledge about the note when Gobind when to extraordinary lengths to keep silent on it?
dpp
we are all of 1 race, the Human Race
The biggest crook now is Ezam.He met Saiful,he also knew about Teoh’s so called suicide note.
Nowadays he is real buddy buddy with Khir Toyo and Noh Omar.
What is this guy up to?Few years ago he claimed he had six boxes hidden in Singapore.
Anyway I just love this guy.!He is really digging UMNO and BN grave.Ezam boleh!!
malkit,
If my recalled memory is right, then once upon a time the “whole opposition world” carry and uphold this very guy on the “HEAD” (junjung atas kepala) for his “boxes of secrets” that he claim is in his possesion.
You all did not even let his feet touch the ground….you all carry him on heads.Whatever he talks was a gospel truth.
Now………….you all say the opposite because he is in the opposite side now. Hehehehe……how to believe and whom to believe, him or you all.
drrafick,
I always believe that both side has a competent team of legal experts. They are allowed to call in their own expert in whatever fields that needed in assisting the learned Coroner who preside the TBH inquiry.
The so call suicide note if found by the Investigating officer it only show the lackadaisacal act of that particular person and that act alone cannot “refute” the authencity of such a note if it ever exist. If it exist and proven by the relevant legal and forensic expert on that field then it is a ” part off the evidence” that is needed to make the Inquiry later after conclusion for the learned Coroner to ascertain the TRUTH of this tragedy.
* On this aspect let us ponder, supposed in another incident (case) such a scenario happen (some sort of note) suddenly produce in court and that note became an important evidence to overturned or even drop charges to an accused.Wouldn’t that be seen as justice done and seen to be done. *
PS
(1) Non disclosure in a timely manner is wrong. The I/O may have found it 2 months after the death but how long have the AG sat on it. My appreciation on what I have read suggest that he knew about it as soon as it was found.
(2) Bringing this new piece of material at this juncture may brings whole lot of argument beyond authenticity.
(3) Going by the way our court behaves of late, the outcome of this note and its impact on the inquest is a forgone conclusion.
Doc, only those EVIL GOONS who are INSANE can do this kind of things.
Can’t really imagine what kind of sufferings will our children face later on in Bolehland.
Oh Dr Rafick, remember that Ezam was also alleged to have met Saiful before the medical check up and meeting with PM etc? Could he be also be in the thick of things that has to do with the AG/IGP/MACC cooking pot?
Isn’t this AG Gani Patail the same fella who was alleged to have fabricated evidence against DSAI in the first Sodomy I trial?
Isn’t this the same Gani Patail who was caught with his pants down when he was caught producing doctored pictures of Pedra Branca / Pulau Batu Putih at the International Court of Justice, no less, at The Hague, as evidence?
So, if this is the same fella, why then are we Malaysians so surprised, awestruck and shocked at the latest twist in the TBH Inquest? It is to be to be expected isn’t it?
When are we Malaysians going to say to those puppetmasters at Putrajaya that enough is enough?
Original script not working ?
Now some extra actors appearing…. only to make it worse than the original !
Up to the coroner whether to accept or reject the so called new evidence (more than a year old)… hope and pray that he has the integrity and wisdom.
Oh…. sense Something ELSE must be brewing somewhere ?
Pinky and Rojak back from holiday … (went quietly to the Riveria in France ?)
Tuesday August 10, 2010
Attorney-General’s statement
IN Teoh Beng Hock’s death inquiry today, the officers representing the Public Prosecutor, in assisting the said inquiry, intended to put in a note found in the deceased’s sling bag which contains an indication that may throw some light regarding his death.
However, the existence of the note was disputed on the grounds of delay in disclosure, failure to furnish a copy of the said note to the counsel representing the deceased’s family and suppression of evidence by the Attorney-General’s Chambers.
The Attorney-General’s Chambers vehemently denies any suppression of evidence (and) instead was equally startled when the discovery of the note was made known and thereafter caused further investigation to be carried out.
The Attorney-General’s Chambers was informed of the discovery of the note by the investigating officer, ASP Ahmad Nazri bin Zainal, on Oct 7, 2009, some two over months after Teoh Beng Hock’s death.
According to the investigating officer, it was not found when he first searched the deceased’s sling bag after the incident.
The note was immediately translated and there was sufficient cause to send it to be analysed by a document examiner of the Chemistry Department.
The said note was sent on Oct 9, 2009 and subsequently on Oct 20, 2009.
The document examiner prepared his reports and they were considered by the Attorney-General himself where the Attorney-General, Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail, was not convinced of the authenticity of the note due to insufficient samples to verify the handwritings, in particular the Chinese characters.
In addition, the note was said to be discovered some two over months after the death and that this would raise suspicion over its authenticity and discovery.
Having considered these factors, Tan Sri Abdul Gani was of the view that the note should not be tendered until and unless the investigating officer could provide satisfactory explanation as to its discovery.
As regards the note, the Attorney-General’s Chambers was earlier briefed by the investigating officer that he conducted a thorough search after being advised by the psychiatric (sic) that ordinarily there would be a note left in a suicide case.
However, recently, the investigating officer owned up by admitting that he did in fact find the note when he searched the sling bag on July 17, 2009 but did not realise the significance of it as there were other documents found and that they were written in both Chinese and Roman characters.
As a result of this, the Attorney-General decided to put the note in and directed the investigating officer to explain this in court to avoid any repercussion in future and let the coroner decide on its weight after considering the explanation by the investigating officer and the document examiner’s report.
Therefore, there is no suppression or withholding of evidence and that the decision for not tendering it earlier was made based on the document examiner’s report as well as the discovery of the note which gave rise to suspicion.
The Attorney-General’s Chambers will tender a document as evidence only and until it is satisfied that any shroud of suspicion surrounding it is lifted.
Jabatan Peguam Negara
9 August 2010
(N4 Nation The Star, Tuesday 10 August 2010)
that guy ezam has 6 boxes full of information. inside, one can find everything…dead cat included.
Dr,
Regarding the poll, could you insert another choice for us to vote? Say “I know and you know who really wrote the note and we just don’t want to say it out loud now. We would prefer to say it through our vote in the 13th GE”, ok?
Nick.
Dear God, If you can read this, please take the pain away from my heart and the hanging shame of being a Malaysian…How low can we sink?
A suicide note by the late TBH?
Come on! Believe it like believe I am Paris ‘Virgin’ Hilton.
hurricane depict hurry……hurrying is disastrous.
Dear Dr’,
You should also read some parody at my blogsite that reflect the way Saiful Bukhari Azlan case. If AG can fabricate this on Teoh Beng Hock, I’m sure Saiful Bukhari Azlan case can be fabricated too
http://cipantapirtenuk.blogspot.com/2010/08/bukti-baru-kes-saiful-bukhari-azlan.html