-
When justice Lau Ban Lee of the High Court made the judgment that the Herald has the right to use the word Allah in its publication, I had expected that there will be groups of people to retaliate by taking the streets expressing their displeasure. Certain quarters are even saying that Justice Lau Ban Lee was biased in her decision because she is not a Muslim. Despite the judgment, I am glad that the court victorious group did not take the streets to celebrate their win.
-
Before I dwell into the issue of the word Allah, I am concerned at the mentality of our Muslim brothers in this country that likes to take the street to demonstrate to show their frustration and their strength over the matter. This does not reflect well on us. The Christian’s in this country did not do demonstrate with banner when KDN banned their publication on the use of the word Allah. They chose to go to court and argue the matter. Why did we not do the same. We took the defensive posture when the matter went to court instead of being on the offensive.
-
There is enough historical evidence that the word Allah is not owned by the Muslims. We just need to do bit more research and we will find the truth. By right, I expect the Muslim historian to paint the true picture of the history and not to keep silent on the matter. In fact, Allah SWT has 99 names and word Allah is just one of the 99 names. Why are we reacting on one word where as the other 98 words are being used openly by many other religions? Fact remains that many Muslims in this country has a shallow perception of the Islamic history that led to them to react in such a manner.
-
Having said that, I believe the Herald must look at the bigger picture in this context of this country. I agree with the courts that the word Allah is not owned by the Muslims. It is a generic Arabic term that is being used in the Middle East countries since the inception of time. Unfortunately the Muslims in this country have been indoctrinated for centuries that the word Allah refers to the GOD of the Muslims. It is not easy for them to readily accept such a decision. The Herald must appreciate that winning the right to use the word Allah in its publication means nothing if it led to disaster and split among Malaysians as a whole. The Herald must look at the implication from the aspect of the nation.
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I also find the statement made by many Muslims scholars reflects poorly on the strength of Muslims in this country. Islam is the official religion of this country. Propagating Islam among the people is the role of the government. There are many institutions in this country that led the propagation of Islam. I take offence when our leaders are saying our Muslim youth can be misled if the Herald is allowed to use the word Allah in their publication. Is the government suggesting that our Aqidah (faith) is so weak that our children can easily be misled? Are we, the Muslim parents cannot manage such a simple issue. We should be strengthening the faith our kids by education and not by setting up barriers. The parents and various institutions must use the education as the means to strengthen the faith of our children.
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Lastly, I hope all quarters look at the bigger picture on the implication by the decision made by Justice Lau. Malaysians is unique. Our nation is the potpourri of many religion and ethnic. We must learn and preserve the harmony. If we lose the harmony, everyone lose. The one that will suffer the most is the lowest rung of the society and the one that will benefit the most is the politicians. I must admit that the Herald has the legal right to use the word Allah but The Herald must shows that it has the wisdom and the understanding the implication of their actions of using such words in a country like Malaysia. All parties must look at the bigger picture. Let us show the world that we have the brains to think wisely.
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My final words extracted from the Quran, Surah 29, V46 (Al-ankabuut), Dan janganlah kamu berbahas dengan Ahli Kitab melainkan dengan cara yang lebih baik, kecuali orang-orang yang berlaku zalim di antara mereka; dan katakanlah (kepada mereka): “Kami beriman kepada (Al-Quran) yang diturunkan kepada kami dan kepada (Taurat dan Injil) yang diturunkan kepada kamu; dan Tuhan kami, juga Tuhan kamu, adalah Satu; dan kepadaNyalah, kami patuh dengan berserah diri.” Or in Arabic
Allah
January 4, 2010 by Dr R@28
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Dear Alizul,
What I despise most is when….you don’t come back to the forum to counterback answers to your comment’s.
That clearly show’s….., where you stand as far as G.K. is concern……,
Please don’t comment in future……, for it shows the depth of knowledge you have and capability in commenting.
Azizul,
NIAT (is a Sanskrit word, Spoken Centuries Ago and till today, from Middle East to South Asia) .
When did Bahasa Malaysia come into being?
So,,,,,,,,Azizul you have borrowed a common language of the region where AReligions of Christianity, Islam, Hinduisim, Sikh, Bhuddism originated).
If you say NIAT than, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh Holly Scripture says “Awal Allah Nur Upaya, Khudrat Key Sab Bhandey, Ek Nur Se Sab Jag Upjeya, Khaun Paley, Kaun Mandey”.
What was the NIAT of Guru Nanak to write this Salok in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, using the word ALLAH?
AWAL ALLAH = 1st is GOD.
ALLAH has been termed GOD from medieval days, irrespective of religion.
Remember this clearly, Bahasa Malaysia does not have characters, for its language. You live on borrowed Roman Characters.
Islam, originated in Saudi Arabis.
Why not, read the KORAN and ask Saudi Arabins to define the word “ALLAH”?
Don’t get influenced by people like Najib, knowing very well what type of cousins they are.
Dr,
Firstly, God bless your work in promoting peace among Malaysians. I would like to explain in my simple understanding as a reader of Herald the Catholic newspaper, Allah has been used for some years by the newsletter before someone from the govt decide that Allah should not be used as a publishing permit requirement, the church dutifully obeyed the order but at the same time appealed and explain to the ministry on the need to use the word, ie our east Malaysian readers hv been calling God Allah for the last few hundred years, so it will be extremely distressing to start erasing all trace of the Almighty’s name and replace with Tuhan for them…. however, herald was still unsuccessful and was even threaten with termination of permit! so the church was left with no choice but to seek a judicial review as a peaceful and reasonable means to seek a solution ( you must be aware that there is no recourse elsewhere, ie through dialogue etc as no ones wants to talk about it as it was deemed sensitive!)
What we did not expect was the violence which greeted the court’s decision! Even if the church were to back down and withdraw the case, there will be no winners, the only victory will be lawlessness and tyranny of a few! Malaysia on the whole will be the real loser. Malaysia will then be known as a country not governed by law and order but intimidation and violence!
Dear CN,
Guess you are right….., moreover….who knows about Herald using the term ” ALLAH ” untill some Idiot’s started addressing it for their publishing permit.
My advice to Herald……stay on course…, and finish the race……, immaterial of who the winner is.
Issues like this needs to be confronted head on with level headed leaders via dialogue…., since we are dealing with pea head brain autorities….., just take a stand and must try living with it at all cost….., if not they will start heaping more conditions.
For we all believe in the creator….., and he KNOWS ALL, whatever name WE ADDRESS HIM….., for now we will address him like what we feel like it. It’s within us …, no one can come in between.
” JUST You, Me and the Others with God “.
Balasi
Please check Email: Urgent
drrafick
Dear Alizul and AK
Let me conclude by saying the enemy of Malaysia is UMNO. Without UMNO, Allah won’t be an issue.
Dear Knight,
I disagree. Hating UMNO is your choice .Why should every issue be thrown down to politics ? The sancity of the use of the word “Allah” by Muslims and Non-Muslims is what matters. Why can’t the various religious authorities sit down to protect the sancity of the word “Allah”, agree on the context of it’s use both written and spoken.
Ak,,
Herald started by doing that until,, Said Ham id Al the Bar, refused to renew their license and challenged them. That Ass H…….. is from UMNO.
Dear Alizul,
Had answered you on the Bhajans….., just felt it would be good to answer you on all that you commented.
First…..” to you it may sound that Hindus and other religions have used the word ALLAH ”
You should not bring the ” Munafiks ” into the picture since it’s between the believers and the ” Kafirs ”
They the Hindus.( most of them )…from day one is brought up with One mentality….. ” Immathamun Sambahtham ” literally meaning all religion is one. So for them it takes alot to appreciate another religion even if it’s not their’s because they all thought it was also theirs.
You then touch on Islamic History……., for what I know the word ALLAH – was the term used as Chief of GOD and incharge of 360 God’s or Idol’s ( Pre- Islamic ) prior to Meccaan’s been change into Monotheist by Proh. Mohd S.A.W.
Free Expression…of faith….., who are we to judge.., do you know that individual or are you just assuming….Faith is between the person concern and God. We are no mortals. We have the liberty to address god like I do most of the time.
I believe in God….., don’t tell me how to address God by Name and nobody should tell me not to address him by that name
Dear Alizul,
This is my third time I’m writting my reply…., because I had to go into the web to see it myself…., sad to say …, when I came back to my half written comment it’s no longer there.
Okay…, Let’s start with what you qouted.
SARVA DHARMA 2422 ( I have it in Front of Me It’s a Romanize version)
ALLAH Naama Bhajo Bhajoreh Bhajo
Maula Naama Bhajo Bhajoreh Bhajo
Nanak Yeshu Mahaveera Naama Bhajo
Sri Buddha Deva Bhajo Bhajoreh Bhajo
Shirdi Sai Baba Bhajo Bhajoreh Bhajo
Sri Raghu Raama Bhajo Govindha Krshna Bhajo
Sri Sathya Sai Bhajo Bhajoreh Bhajo.
Alizul,
In my book in front of me it’s ALLAH and not ALLAHA,
can prove to you to if you want…., just say so in this forum…..can arrange to meet with DR. Rafick’s blessing.
Would not like to go into to much details but suffice for me to go into a breif detail of some contents in this book.
” Let the different faith’s exist, let them florish and let the glory of God be sung in all languages and in a variety of tunes.
Respect the differences between faith and recognise them as valid so long they do not extinguish the flame of Unity.
Whom the Muslims adore as Allah, Whom the Christians adore as Jehovah, whom the Saivaites adore as Sambhu…, or name him as you want…for he grants you in prayers…., Good Health, Prosperity and Happiness.
He is One God ….And He is God for All Mankind.
( PS. …Dear Alizul….., welcome on board……, you are the type we need in this blog. )
good morning my friends. happy 2010! this is my opinion of the god i believe in, Allah.
The word “Allah” is the perfect description of the “One God” of monotheism for Jews, Christians and Muslims. And is “Allah” only for Islam and Muslims?No! It is for All Three Abrahamic Faiths.
“Allah” is the same word used by Christian Arabs and Jewish Arabs in their Bible, centuries before Islam came.
On page 1 of Genesis in the Old Testament, we find the word “Allah” seventeen [17] times. For Arabic they have translated the verse in the New Testament in Arabic from the famous verse in the Gospel John 3:16 -
“For God so loved the world…”
- and the word the translators used in Arabic for “God” is the very same word used by Muslims around the planet, “Allah.”
Where Does the word “Allah” Come From?
“Allah” comes from the Arabic word “elah”a god’ or something worshiped. – (Arabic) means ‘
This word (elah) can be made plural (gods), as in “aleha” and it can be male or female just as the word in English can be “goddess.”
“Allah” comes from “elaha” but it brings more clarification and understanding.
Allah = Has no gender (not male and not female)
“He” is used only out of respect and dignity – not for gender
Allah = Always singular – Never plural
“We” is used only as the “Royal WE” just as in English for royalty
Allah = Means “The Only One to be Worshipped”
are we game here?
Yes Oettinger, Welcome back……, a very fruithful Comment …..and very enlightening….., nice to have you back.
Happy New Year.
Allah is the standard Arabic word for God. While the term is best known in the West for its use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to “God”. The term was also used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity in pre-Islamic Arabia. The concepts associated with the term Allah (as a deity) differ among the traditions. In pre-Islamic Arabia amongst pagan Arabs, Allah was not considered the sole divinity, having associates and companions, sons and daughters – a concept which Islam thoroughly and resolutely abrogated. In Islam, the name Allah is the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. All other divine names are believed to refer back to Allah. Allah is unique, the only Deity, creator of the universe and omnipotent. Arab Christians today use terms such as Allāh al-ʼAb (“God the Father”) to distinguish their usage from Muslim usage. There are both similarities and differences between the concept of God as portrayed in the Qur’an and the Hebrew Bible.
The term Allāh is derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- “the” and ʼilāh “deity, god” to al-lāh meaning “the [sole] deity, God” (ho theos monos). Cognates of the name “Allāh” exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic. The corresponding Aramaic form is Ĕlāhā in Biblical Aramaic and ʼAlâhâ or ʼĀlōho in Syriac.
The contraction of al- and ʼilāh in forming the term Allāh (“the god”, masculine form) parallels the contraction of al- and ʼilāha in forming the term Allāt (“the goddess”, feminine form).
In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.
Allah was not considered the sole divinity; however, Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion. Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of kinship existed between Allah and the jinn. Allah was thought to have had sons and that the local deities of al-ʻUzzá, Manāt and al-Lāt were His daughters. The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah. Allah was invoked in times of distress. Muhammad’s father’s name was ‘Abdallāh meaning the “servant of Allāh.” or “the slave of Allāh”.
According to Islamic belief, Allah is the proper name of God,[11] and humble submission to His Will, Divine Ordinances and Commandments is the pivot of the Muslim faith.[1] “He is the only God, creator of the universe, and the judge of humankind.”[1][2] “He is unique (wahid) and inherently one (ahad), all-merciful and omnipotent.”[1] The Qur’an declares “the reality of Allah, His inaccessible mystery, His various names, and His actions on behalf of His creatures.”[1]
Allah script outside Eski Cami (The Old Mosque) in Edirne, Turkey.
In Islamic tradition, there are 99 Names of God (al-asma al-husna lit. meaning: “The best names”) each of which evoke a distinct characteristic of Allah. All these names refer to Allah, the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name. Among the 99 names of God, the most famous and most frequent of these names are “the Merciful” (al-rahman) and “the Compassionate” (al-rahim).
Most Muslims use the untranslated Arabic phrase “insha’ Allah” (meaning “God willing”) after references to future events. Muslim discursive piety encourages beginning things with the invocation of “bismillah”(meaning “In the name of God”).
There are certain phrases in praise of God that are favored by Muslims, including “Subhan-Allah” (Holiness be to God), “Alhamdulillah” (Praise be to God), “La-il-la-ha-illa-Allah” (There is no deity but God) and “Allāhu Akbar” (God is great) as a devotional exercise of remembering God (zikr). In a Sufi practice known as zikr Allah (lit. remembrance of God), the Sufi repeats and contemplates on the name Allah or other divine names while controlling his or her breath.
Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word “Allah” to mean “God”.
The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for ‘God’ than ‘Allah’. (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for ‘God’.) Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ʼab meaning God the father, Allāh al-ibn mean God the son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).
Arab Christians have used two forms of invocations that were affixed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim basm-Allah, and also created their own Trinitized basm-Allah as early as the eight century CE. The Muslim basm-Allah reads: “In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.” The Trinitized basm-Allah reads: “In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God.” The Syriac, Latin and Greek invocations do not have the words “One God” at the end.
This addition was made to emphasize the monotheistic aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.
Dear Oettinger,
Kalau marah pun ….jangan sampai ” REPUT DALAM HATI ”
Not good, we should express ourselves and also forgive and forget.
بسم اللهالرحمنالرحيم
Dear ktteokt,
” WALLAHUALAM ”
Are we been childish…..? Hope not.!
Dear All,
Reading from other sites it seems that one of the arguments is that the muslim god is one whereas the christian god is a trinity and Allah is not a trinity. Therefore Christians cannot refer to Allah. The tone gets quite aggressive.
We must also not forget Isa to the muslims is a prophet whereas to the christians he is the son of god and part of the trinity. What do we do about him then.
Going further isnt the bible just a distorted version of the Quran. What are we going to do about that?
Dear Danny,
Most of our educated Leaders both past and present…, are so naive when it comes to common sense…including our TMM.
God is One and Only One – ALLAH or the name we choose to address . ( example you need Electricity to Light up the world. )
TRINITY – the Three source to carry electricity to light up the world..( Negative, Positive and Nuteral ) all encompass in a cable .
1 = 1*1*1 and end subject you still get ONE.
This is my personnel opinion ….just thought it work’s that way.
Im deeply happy with PAS’s official statement on the matter of “Allah” It shows excellent understanding, maturity and responsibility. Dr Asri has further provided sugestions on how to handle arising issues if not well understood.
Good morning, Drrafick and all the wise men and women (including visitors from UMNO).
Glad to read the comments from some intellectuals on Islam …. very enlightening. And thank you, sirs.
That shows not All muslims are confused as alleged by certain CONFUSED lot ( identities well publicised in MSM)
BTW, notice anything over the so called controversy ?? No ?
OK, in plain English – Was there any complaint at all, even from the Confused Umno, that the word was used to insult Islam ???
But no… cos most religions expound respect for others ….
IF it had, the Church members themselves would had lambasted the Church .. for insulting another Religion.
Had a conversation with next door neighbour (a Malay muslim UMNO member)
- his comment ” Aiyah, bang. Ini politik UMNO lah ……. ”
So that about sums up the scenarios over the past few days.
Lingering question …. what’s the hidden agenda behind all the brohaha ?
Anyone knowledgeable care to share their thoughts ?
Have a good day and Peace to all.
From the very beginning UMNO knew this case will go against it so they put a non-Muslim judge. A Muslim judge will find it very difficult to rule against UMNO.
The verdict and reaction to it has all been well planned to whip up racist and religious sentiments do that the Malays will back UMNO in the next GE.
UMNO is a devil’s party. Why else should it defend the use of Allah unless it is for political gain.
UMNO is controlling God!!
I wish Ahmad Deedat is still alive. He will explain it all.
Salam Dr Rafick,
You said: “Allah SWT has 99 names and word Allah is just one of the 99 names.”
There are in fact many versions and interpretations of the 99 names.
The 99 names have many different versions. For example, one list does not have Al-Ahad – (The One), while another does not have Al-Razzaaq. Imam Al-Bayhaqi reports that there are two versions of the hadith on the 99 names, with different 99 names in each.
In fact, Allah’s names are not limited to 99, which is a common misconception. There’s the evidence of the supplication (do’a) where one calls upon Allah by the names He has kept to Himself (obviously not taking these names since Allah has not revealed them to us).
The 99 names are understood to be the ATTRIBUTES of Allah, such as Ar-Rahmaan (The Compassionate, The Beneficient), Ar-Raheem (The Merciful), Al-Mu’tiy (The Bestower, The Giver), Al-Razzaaq (The Sustainer, The Provider). However, if we search the internet, we’ll find that foreign sites and Malaysian sites have different lists of the 99 names (attributes). Two of the foreign sites cited below include Allah among the 99 names:
- http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html
- http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/islam_99_name s.htm
In the first site, Allah means “Allah, He who has the Godhood which is the power to create the entities.” If we understand that the 99 names are attributes of Allah, then we cannot say that Allah is the attribute of Allah. Neither can we say Allah has the Godhood, for He Himself, and only He, is God and therefore possesses all the characteristics of Godhood which include the power to create the entities. Another interpretation is that the meaning denotes a powerful Creator, which is an attribute.
In the second site, Allah means “The Greatest Name,” which again draws different interpretations. One says it is obviously not an attribute like The Compassionate, The Sustainer, etc. Another says it is an attribute since Allah indeed is the Greatest.
Note that the 99 names listed in Wikipedia do not include Allah. Refer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an
However, if we visit Malaysian sites, Allah is not included. The following 3 sites are examples:
- http://www.familiazam.com/asmaul_husna.htm
- http://yusreef.multiply.com/journal/item/43
- http://tazkirahs.blogspot.com/2009/10/99-nama-allah-dan-makna.html
Here in Malaysia, we practice the recitation of 99 names (Asmaul-Husna) whereby the recitation is preceded by verses glorifying Allah, but Allah is not in the 99 names. In other words, Allah is glorified first to signify that He and Only He has certain unique attributes, following which we then recite the 99 names. I myself have gone to many such recitation sessions in mosques, and that is how we practice it.
However, this is not to say that it’s wrong to include Allah or it’s wrong not to include Allah. Different practices in different countries do not mean one is right and the other wrong. If we refer to the Hadith Sahih Muslim, our Prophet said: “Verily, there are ninety-nine names of God, one hundred minus one…” There are many interpretations to this, one of which is that the 100th name is Allah, others interpret it to mean a name kept secret by Allah.
In any case, I wouldn’t dare say who is right and who is wrong. After all, it’s about Allah whom we glorify and to whom we submit in our daily prayer. So it’s best that we do not get into needless polemics on this. I’m merely trying to point out that there are many versions and interpretations of the 99 names.
Dear Dr. Rafick.
When you have the CEO of the country …, just advising the Muslim’s not to take to the street’s …., what was he tryining to instill…….? If not fear….among Non Malays.
Can I just advise the Herald….., please think of the bigger picture ….., you have 98 other names to choose from….,
just don’t be self centred…..it will be a total lost if it get’s out of hand’s…..for they are goon’s awaiting it to happen.
Blame yourself Catholic’s ( Christians )….., for these are the only two religion on EARTH that embarks on converting human’s like they were convincing you to buy a Charge Card….., What IDIOCY….is it all about.?
Numbers …don’t make a difference….., ask the cop’s.
The number of rape’s.., infidelity, Child rapes…, abuses by the parent’s on their adolescent children…., ask why.?
There is nothing in a name…, for he , ” God is Omipresent.”
Just for the rest to know….., the Hindus have been singing a song during their Bhajan’s
” Eshwara Allah Terenam, Sabko Sanmathi Hey Baghavan ”
It’s just that they never made any noise about It. So nobody knew.
” He the One God Is For All Mankind, He is One and Only One……, and you can call him Whatever you want ……, for he hears you even when you are asleep. “
balasi,,
Herald is thinking with a big picture, by not offending the UMNO NGOS, because the word “ALLAH” used by Herald also originates from the SIKH “SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB” AND THE HINDU “THE BHAGVAT GEETA”.
I DON’T SEE THE FUSS ANYMORE.
REST YOUR CASE.
balasi,
,,,may I share this with you too….
,,,It was to give a proof that anyone with any ‘faith,’ any caste, any place, who sincerely worships Him, will realize Him and find Him in ever heart. Through this unique step, it was declared and preached that it is absurd to say that there is only one particular name of the God and there is only one particular method of worship to realize Him of find Him and reach Him. It was to be taught emphatically to all that any name and say method is right if there is sincerity behind the action and it is wrapped in pious love. The experiences of those seekers who “found” Him, were recorded for eternity in the Adi Granth. It must be taken not of that these persons were born in different religions, were of different castes and adopted different rituals but realized (experienced) the existence of the same God everywhere and in everyone. Here is what, a few of them (seven out of fifteen gursikhs) whose writings are included in the Adi Granth, have said:
1. Bhagat Rama Nanda was a Gaur Brahmin, Vaishanava. When he perceived the existence of the God in all and everywhere, he questioned the validity of outward rituals and announced “I need go nowhere. I have realized that all pervading god in my own heart as well” [Page 1195]
2. Bhagat Kabir who was never weaver and brought up under Muslim environment spoke the same thing “God has created all beings from the same source and He Himself is existing in all of them and everywhere” [Page 1349]
3. Bhagat Namdev was a Maharashtrian calico-printer. Through sincere devotion he too reached the same stage of spiritual attainment-”In every body, there is the same God who speaks. Who else than God can be there to speak in every person?” [Page 988 ]
4. Bhagat Sheikh Farid was a Muslim who followed all Mohammedan rituals advises us: “If you want to love God, do not injure the feelings of any-one because He resides in everybody”[Page 1384 ]
5. Bhagat Bhikhan was yet another Muslim devotee also came to the same conclusion and said “Wherever I see, It is He Who is there” [page 659 ]
6. Bhagat Ravidas, a cobbler, Sudra by caste, when he attained the stage of God-realization, even the Brahmins fell at his feet. He also came to the same conclusion “There is no second or third, it is the same God Himself everywhere” [Page 345 ]
7. Bhagat Pipa, a Raja and a disciple of Bhagat Rama Nand, has his own way of expressing the same feelings. “The God which prevails in the whole universe also resides in my own heart too. Anyone who search Him will find Him.” [Page 695 ]
Salam muhibah.
Dear Capt / Dr. Amrit.
What else to say…..you have caption it all……, Religion belongs to one Human race….., it’s just that it was not managed with responsibility.
Capt my Guru….., keep it coming for I’m learning.
balasi,
,,,may i share with you again, a brotherly comment from another blogger buddy of mine ;
“Capt,,,
Presumably you are referring to the debate now raging on Malay Muslims MUST have the exclusive right and priviledge to their Tuhan being referred as Allah?
The Allah in the Quran and the Hadiths is distinctive. Muslims who read the Quran, pray and make supplications to Allah do not/cannot have any ambiguity.
Any less of being sure he is surely a non-believer and no Christian or anyone else surely cannot be held responsible for this!
Anyone stating any definition about Allah is welcoming an invitation and it would be a great opportunity for a Muslim to explain his belief in Allah’s existence with the spiritual and intellectual terms described in the Quran.
I am very uncomfortable with the Malays reacting in so wrong a manner in particular that a Malay is a traitor to Islam if he does react as such. Are the Malays so ready and willing to mengkafir the other on this right and priviledge to exclusive use of Allah?”,,,
4 January 2010 19:49
dear all,
,,,lets hope our political leaders don’t jeopardise the ordinary rakyat’s daily efforts towards national unity too.
,,,hate to see any forms of national retrogression too.
,,,give it up, play with it and you/we will all lose out, indeed, my sincere godly advise-lah to dear all.
i put to rest on the subject.
Dear Capt,
Where do we stand after all this ? When a country which is hardly 52….., can induce such believe to the extent of turmoil….., just because they have the majority….?
Have not the Kafir’s address God as ” ALLAH ” prior to all this rot’s.?
Do this country…of our’s have a future ?
Who were these guy’s ancestor’s prior to them becoming Muslim’s……are they all rotting in hell …and as a technical man …..how much area is needed to accomodate the death….., if it run’s to one thousand trillion on Judgement Day.?
balasi,
,,,only if one has faith.
Dr. Rafick
I’m watching SoalJAwab di Tv3 now. This datuk Abu Kassim just mentioned about “bunuh diri” which I believed he may be referring to late Teo. Can you verify this as I found his comment is outrageous..
regards
REMINDER TO IGP MUSA HASSAN
If anybody demonstartes against the decision of the High Court,,
IT IS CONTEMPT OF COURT AND THE POLICE DOGS SHOULD BE RELEASED AT ONCE TO ARREST THE CULPRITS.
guys,
,,, i have a better idea, just let loose our guys in green to try out their new rifles on the demonstrartors ??.
,,, unfortunately, the guys in sky blue can’t do much without their F5 engines !!.
,,,Guess, you can have your bacons with the piggies, if i may say so!?. Then even the dogs won’t go hungry.
—-the malaysian dilemma and integration process on the acid test.—- can we all survive ??. We bloody well do !!. Just STOP the blame game, THINK malaysian as 1nation, o.K. buddies.??…and grow-up please everyone, 52 years on our own, yet still behaving like 6 years old kid. Adoi !!.
,,,maybe, am just 12 ??. hahaha. indeed, lots of learning still-lah. Take it easy guys, its not the end of the world for ALLAH’s sake. (o.k. for God’s sake,,,,does it sounds right ?)
balasi,
,,,it all boils down to appreciating one’s basic religious fundamentals-lah.
,,,most don’t understand its concept !!. As such…
,,,am still learning too.!!. everyone should.??. would you not !?.
Capt,,
Good Caption, Enlightening, Educative and most of All Knowledge to Mankind.
Info: “Bhagat Kabeer was a Muslim by faith”. He has many of his “SLOKES” or “SAYING”, been recorded in the “SERI GURU GRANTH SAHIB” as some which has been stated by you in your write up denoted by the various pages.
Capt,
I have started taking lesson’s for now……, please elaborate on your comment’s futher down.
Dear Dr. Amrit ? Capt,
We just have some loose GOON’S among our Leaders who don’t even know what they are talking about…., they sway like the lalang….., they stick and stink like a SKUNK….., most of all they talk like a they know all…., when even a asshole will tell them they are wrong.
Please don’t play POLITICS….at the expense of the NATION……., for it will then be a point of no return….,
Want to add more but….will rest my case like Capt say’s.
I spoke to a sufi master to get his view. I was talking for about 10-15mins to explain whats goin on. He listened and just smiled and said, “Rabbul Alamin”. Thats all. I smiled and said…true indeed. End of conversation and back to reflections. I trust the informed ones will understand this.
Got this from the internet, please can someone verify it authethicity
Quote
Rabbul Alamin
(The Sustainer of the Worlds)
By – Ali Mansur (mansur_ali_2000@yahoo.com)
In the Holy Quran, Allah himself chooses some of his attributes, (the most beautiful names of Allah , Asmaul hussnah) and among those attributes, one is ‘Rab’ and its full names is ‘Rabbul Alamin’ meaning the sustainer of the worlds. Its means if Allah does not sustain the world, it cannot survive. Most of the Islamic scholars agreed that the
universe can’t retain its existence for a single moment if Allah stops providing its sustenance.
Unquote
Rab is also used by other religions but mostly as a generic word to mean God, I know the North Indian use it. There, now I have also brought the north indians into this self created controversy. Hows that.
I WILL QUOTE A VERSE FROM THE SIKH HOLY BIBLE CALLED, “GURU GRANTH SAHIB” ON THE USAGE OF THE WORD “ALLAH”.
“AWAL ALLAH NUR UPAYA, KUDHRAT KEY SUB BHANDEY, EK NUR SE SAB JAG UPJEYA, KAUN PALEY, KAUN MANDEY “.
“1ST LIGHT IS GOD, PEOPLE ORIGINATE FROM THEIR KHUDRATS, FROM ONE LIGHT IS WHERE MANKIND ORIGINATES, WHO IS GOOD AND WHO IS BAD”.
NOW DO I LOOSE THE PRIVILAGE OF USING THE WORD “ALLAH”, BEACUSE UMNO IS COMPLAINING, WHEN MY SCRIPTURES WERE WRITTEN 600 YEARS AGO, DURING THE REIGN OF MUSLIM MOGUL RULERS IN INDIA, WHITHOUT ANY COMPLAINS.
UMNO IS ONLY 60 YEARS OLD, ONLY PRACTICING THE RELIGION OF ISLAM, NOT EVEN THE CUSTODIANS OF THE RELIGION, WITH RESPECT TO ARABS WHERE IT ORIGINATES FROM.
Dear Dr. Amrit,
You got your fact’s but they will produce you distorted History dating back to the thirteen centuary…., how for a timun to roll or be rolled by a durian…?
Keep writing Bro……, we are all enlightening ourselves.
Like how Guru was define by you and Capt…!
I think what is pertinent here is not the use of the the term Allah in West Malaysia. In West Malaysia (originally Malaya) there is no confusion as far as I can remember, I dont remember anyone in west malaysia using allah in churches, at least in the urban scenario, dont know about orang asli.
But let us be considerate and understand the feelings of East Malaysia, they have been using the term Allah for a long time even before joining Malaya to form Malaysia. Are we so selfish or dictatorial or feelings less than we dont give them due consideration. So what about them, their rights, did they lose that when they joined up with Malaya. Not fair, I say they are just as indigenous as any other indigenous malaysian.
What in fact is required is some fair minded education by the islamic scholars. The gormen should make a strong PR effort to explain the issue plus formulate guidelines with all concerned (sikhs, christians, muslims and all others who refer to GOD as allah whether in practice or through their scriptures).
But then, our gormen is UMNO who is in the dumps now and will use anything to gain mileage. Therein lies the problem and the problem is NOT IN THE USE OF THE TERM ALLAH which has been done for centuries now.
Another thing, if the BN gormen didnt water down the judiciary to the point of people doubting it, there will also not be a problem today. Those days if it is decided by the court, it was deemed fair and square but today who believes the judiciary.
Bottom welcome Zimbabwe by another name.
Allah Hu Akhbar.
Dear dear dear,
,,,just imagine if the gormen were to make it mandatory for all other religion to use ALLAH instead of ‘whatever’ being utilized in this country of ours??.
,,,so its all down to basic common sense-lah, just don’t let the opportunist to capitalize on subject issue/matter for their selfish hidden agenda. I think the rakyat has matured by now.
,,,now, indeed we would like to see what leadership do our ‘sultan rajas’ got to say on it too. Its about time, they earn their keeps too and their contribution towards the good of the nation.
i rest my case.
If Court fails, UMNO can! If UMNO fails, the King can!
How and when do we gonna allow justice to take its course?
This is really MALAYSIA BOLEH!!!
سمبهيڠله سبلوم اندا دسمبهيڠكن
Amien.
Ahhhh ….. a 5-letter word ..so much excitement and frenzy !
This can only happened in the place called “BULLY All Land”
Some champions of Confusion claimed sole proprietry rights, patented ?
In a nutshell, process of law had been deliberated and decided…..
a Gomen appointed High Court judge made a decision in favour of the complainant.
But decision NOT Accepted by the BULLY All go men ( or rather the YesNo party ).
Then organised protests here and there, dancing up and down ( Saturday Night Fever?)..
all legal gatherings without approved permit, eh ?
Aahhh, the Poh Lice ? Vely fliendly, leh.
No need for ….. “10 saat mulai sikalang” warning, ( reserved lights of Poh Lice ?)
Who said no super athletics around ? get lost in 10 seconds… wow !
Can pose some questions to the champions of Confusion , kah ?
How come English newspapers can print the word “Al***” in their news reports ?
What about English Dictionaries,encyclopedias ? (… Oh no spek Angerlis, huh?)
TV news broadcast, Internet blogs, Foreign magazines, etc (…cannot monitor all…understaffed ?)
(Aiyah, better not ask more …. champions lagi confused !)
Hello, 1Malaise CEO…. the often repeated public statements such as:
… law abiding people…. live in peace with one another… and all the BULL rhetorics ?
Aha ! Alas… the truth is out. A New strategy… Do What I Say, NOT Say What I Do !
There goes Pinky Panther and 1Malaise theme song….
*** Listen Up, Folks. Heard some crazy artists trying to promote some theatre classical dances with titles like ” BULLS on the loose ! ” and ” The Hidden Agenda “.
Nay…don’t support these shows, cannot afford the price …. Lagi pun BN (Barang Naik) related. ***
Todai , many tipe poh errors … fingers confused, lol !
Ahhh, at last, Dee pee am is active again (the Star on line today)
Gotta run ..10 seconds time up.
Reference from Wikipedia: Allah is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to “God”.
(Word removed by Moderator ) umNO!
,,,the biggest problem in malaysia is that most idiotic politicians have this ‘holier than thou’ mentality and “a sickening sanctimonious smile” plus with their idiotic followers following in line like sitting ducks.
,,,don’t you feel like shooting them down ? yaa!!. BUT Almighty Allah forbids !!. Anyone with beliefs in God, is a believer of ALLAH. That’s my take. Very simple too.
,,,we all malaysian must wake-up and continue to learn everyday about “life and living”. Its all in the mindset !!. Change for the better always or you will be left behind.
,,,and please, lets get rid of the “holier-than-thou” attitude for good. Enough is enough and I have had enough of such nonsense too.
,,,May i remind all my malaysian bro/sis that others too believes in ALLAH. Its between me and God. To be a believer in itself is sacred as far as am concerned. Lets not be plain stupid or just ‘bodoh sombung’. geeeee.
Mari Kita Tengok hujah yang di gunakan oleh Herald dalam affidavit mereka daripada kita melalut tak tentu pasal dengan dasar liberal kononya.
1.
In his affidavit, Pakiam said, ” I am advised by my solicitors that I have a legal right to use the word “Allah” in the Herald-The Catholic Weekly- (published by him) and this legal right stems from the right to freedom of speech and expression as enshrined in Article 10 of the Federal Constitution and from the right to profess and practice the Christian faith as enshrined in Article 11 of the Federal Constitution which includes and is not limited to propagating the faith amongst the non-English speaking faithful in Malaysia especially the Indonesians and the Arabic-speaking of the Christian faith.”
Komen:
Berapa ramai kristian berbahasa Arab di Malaysia? Dan jika mereka Berbahasa Arab, kenapakah penerbitan mereka tidak dalam bahasa Arab?
2) He said the word “Allah” is the correct Bahasa Malaysia word for “God” and in the Bahasa Malaysia translation of the Bible, “God” is translated as “Allah” and “Lord” is translated as “Tuhan”.
Komen:
Tidak ada terjemahan rasmi untuk kitab injil dalam Bahasa Malaysia.Apa yang ada cuma Terjemahan Indonesia.Sekiranya mereka bernar-benar berminat untuk mendapakan terjemahan rasmi dalam Bahasa Malaysia, mereka sepatutnya mengikut terjemahan yang telah di tetapkan oleh Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka dan bukannya Hakim Lau Bee Lan.
3) He added that for fifteen centuries, Christians and Muslims in Arabic-speaking countries have been using the word “Allah” in reference to the One God. The Catholic Church in Malaysia and Indonesia and the great majority of other Christian denominations hold that “Allah” is the legitimate word for “God” in Bahasa Malaysia.
Komen:
Mengapa ayik merujuk kepada Negara berbahasa Arab dalam hujah mereka? Adakah Malaysia Negara Berbahasa Arab?
4) “Therefore state that it has now been universally accepted that the word ‘Allah’ is not exclusive to the religion of Islam both as a matter of faith and as a matter of the use of language,” he said.
Komen:
ALLAH adalah NAMA KHAS untuk tuhan bagi orang Islam di Malaysia. NAMA AM untuk GOD dalam Bahasa Malaysia adalah TUHAN
Kesimpulan:
1) Ini hanyalah isu salah faham dalam PENTERJEMAHAN BAHASA dan tiada kaitan untuk menidakkan hak untuk bercakap atau hak untuk orang kristian beragama
2) Malaysia bukan negara yang Berbahasa Arab. BAhasa kita adalah berbeza dari Bahasa Indonesia. Di Malaysia pihak yang berkuasa mengenai Bahasa dan terjemahan adalah Dewan BAhasa dan GOD dalam Bahasa Malaysia adalah TUHAN dan bukan ALLAH
3) ALLAH adalan NAMA KHAS untuk tuhan terutama untuk orang Islam di negara-negara yang tidak berbahasa Arab. Konsep TUHAN di dalam Islam itu berbeza dengan konsep dalam adama kristian (KONSEP TRINITI) . MAka untuk mengatakan ALLAH adalah NAMA AM untuk TUHAN adalah satu penghinaan kepada Muslim di Malaysia.
Kendatipun saya tidak merasakan yang saluran undang-undang adalah perkara yang betul dalam hal ini kerana Agama Islam adalah DI ATAS UNDANG-UNDANG dan DI ATAS POLITIK. Tiada keperluan untuk membuat rayuan di Mahkamah yang hanya akan meletakkan Agama Islam DI BAWAH UNDANG-UNDANG. Majlis Raja-raja dan Yang Di pertuan Agonglah yang berhak untuk menyelesaikannya.
check what is the word used in Bahasa Indonesia for God. also check what the Arabs used before prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to refer to other gods. and I guess Bahasa Indonesia was spoken much longer in this region before islam came here. and why Bahasa Indonesia cos our countrymen in Sabah and Sarawak have been using bibles from Indonesia way before they join as partners to become Malaysia. I may be wrong but there is no B.Malaysia bible cos the govt will not allow one. if they did, they could have actually made life easier cos they could have defined the word for God. Note the bible has been around for long time and that includes Malaysia. and malaysia can’t claim copyright for the Arab word Allah cos it is not a malay word thus there can’t be exclusivity. no patents etc.
actually it has not been an issue for long time but the over zealous Home ministry wanted to make this an issue. The christians are not converting muslims although there have been claims like the one made in Perak by a man of god which was proven wrong.
Allahu’akbar
Dear Kush & the Other’s,
For me the name of God is a Non Issue….., I can call God whatever I want….., for it’s my right and it’s within us.
I can call GOD in whatever term’s I feell relevant….for It’s a privilage term between me and God only…… so why harp……, we should be happy if someone want to use it…
But then History and what Dr. Rafick quote in the Quran / Surah 29 Ver 26 ( Alankbuut ) said it all ….so why drag it to such extent till it becomes dangerous.
Looks like we are all NOVICE as far as Political Maturity is Concern.
The Johor State Athem starts with ‘Allah selamatkan Sultan’. I dont think I need to say more
Merely translated from ” God Save the Queen”.
Dear Danny,
I pose this question to Dr. Rafick…., regarding the Selangor state Anthem….., in another forum….., reply still pending can answer you after Dr Rafick ….replies…..or he will reply both togather.
Muslims form the majority in Malaysia. Some of the Muslims prefer to be liberal, that’s their choice. Freedom of other religions have been respected and have not been curtailed. What else will they demand next?
Eagle Eye,,
I prefer the Liberal Muslims,,,for the simple reason they understand the tenets of Their Religion. They are a good example of Living Human Beings, among All Races.
Silly little twit. The demands are coming from all the umno inspired creation that had been used as agents of provocation whenever umno needed some idiots to provoke the fragile racial and religious divide in malaysia.
The heralds are only asking to be left alone to read the bible the way it had been translated all these years.
Dear Eagle Eye,
I had been following your short comment’s.. Allahu’ahbar
God is great…., not only for the majority….but also the minority….., if you ask my two cent’s worth of advise on religion…., I would say just wash it down the drain.
For Religion will not feed you…..if you yourself ( both majority or minority ) don’t berdikari.
Billion’s or Trillion’s have died….., but have anybody come back to give a hint on what it’s like after Death….., Tak ada.
If Heaven or Hell exsist……, or they are all waiting for Judgement Day….. This is all Hearsay….., just do good and hope the best for you and your family.
We will not have this level of CORRUPTION in this country if they believe there is another world after Death.
Care to Comment.
dear all,
,,,to my muslim malay community, may i suggest that you read this ‘religious fundamentals’ that every muslims should know about.
By: Muhammad bin Sulaiman At-Tamimi
ISBN: 9960-740-88-9 (9960740889)
,,,brief overview; In this modern time in which atheism and apostasy are dominant, it is needed to resort to Islam so that we may save ourselves from the man-made philosophies which are affecting our Monotheistic creed and cultural values. This treaties clearly explains Tauhid, Shirk and Nifaq from the Islamic point of view so that the concept remains clear in our minds.
Salam
Dear Capt,
Care to elaborate…..more on your comment..?
balasi,
,,,if you are interested to read more …
;http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/new/Prophets_of_God.html
,,,there is so much to learn about God yaa…never ending.
Dear Capt,
Over and out…., thanks.
ALLAH IS A COMMON WORD AND IS USED IN MANY LANGUAGES AND IN MANY RELIGIONS.
Lets all agree to one thing before, we jump the gun’s calibre.
Take cognizance of a Fact that, the Arabic Language came into being even before Mohammed, stepped on this BUMI.
The fact remains that the word ALLAH is an origin, of the CHARACTERS OF THE ARABIAN LANGUAGE, SPOKEN through out MIDDLE EAST.
LOOK INTO THE COMPOSITION OF PEOPLE IN MIDDLE EAST.
JEWS, CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS, JAINS, ROMAN CATHOLICS, PROTESTANTS, SUNNIS, SHIA, ASIANS AND OTHERS.
THE COMMON DENOMINATING FACTOR IS THAT, THEY READ, WRITE WITH ARABIC CHARACTERS AND ALSO SPEAK ARABIC.
BOTTOM LINE,, ITS THEIR LANGUAGE. MUSLIMS IN MALAYSIA OR FOR THAT MATTER, EVEN INDIAN MUSLIMS LIKE MAHATHIR HIMSELF, DON’T SPEAK OR UNDERSTAND, THE ARABIC LANGUAGE AT ALL.
ORIGINALLY, MY INDIAN MUSLIM BROTHERS brought the ISLAM Religion to Malaysia and how interesting, INDIAN MUSLIMS in INDIA, don’t complain about the usage of the word ALLAH in, SIKH, HINDU, JAIN, CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES.
It shows the matuarity of INDIAN MUSLIMS in INDIA, that it is a fact that the word ALLAH is not an OWNERSHIP of ISLAMIC RELIGION but, it is just an origin of word from the ARABIC LANGUAGE.
INDIANS in INDIA are being more sensible about it and except the fact, through Education and Knowledge. Indians being nearer to Saudi Arabia, the King of S. Arabia could have send a Message to PM Manmohan Singh and complained about it, but the KING is more sensible than, this Mahathir, who seems to be working against the order of nature.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/breaking-views/48413-confident-people-do-not-get-confused–marina-mahathir
thank allah she has more sense than her dad.
there is a contract but in this country the govt doesn’t care about contracts they have signed, so how to trust their word.
prophet Muhammad(pbuh) has spell it very clearly. but the politicians locally need an issue to create problems.
We should not underestimate the passions that religion invoke. For the Catholic Church to take this to court means there is far more behind the use of ‘Allah’ than just a term which can be replaced with another. Neither I nor dr. raffick understand the implication behind it but it must be huge. But dr. raffick is right, for the sake of harmony the church should give way for now with the near certainty that the Court of Appeal will overturn the High Court ruling. To remedy it, wait till the 13th G.E.
I beg to differ. The entire episode had been the provocation of ngos that had been known to be associated with umno. I won’t be surprise that many of them are actually financed by umno to be used whenever umno needed to create some turmoil within the society and umno would come in as the saviour.
Such provocation must not prevail.
This whole episode has nothing to do with religion but politics.
Dear Ken / Sunshine,
Ken I agree with you that we wait till the PRU13….and I also agree with Sunshine that all this has to do with the Goon’s from UMNO.
My question to Sunshine…is only one….., would you want to see the Court of Appeal changing all this and bringing it to square one……, just don’t waste money in our Kangaroo Court’s….., What exactly…did the Church wanted to achieve ?
Just maintain ” JEHOVA ” and keep going……, God will understand….., it’s just my opinion.
God will even acknowledge….., if you call him ” BABY or CUTIE “
You had failed to understand the thrust of what I had said. It is a question of our fundamental rights as enshrined in the constitution and not who shout the loudest or demonstrate a greater degree of violence and street stupidity.
The goons should not be responded to in kind but this does not mean backing down to their bullying tactics. In this regard the more open and understanding muslims must take the lead to help educate and convince the muslim population.
Dear Sunshine,
Forgive me I have….., I just read your comments in Malaysiakini this evening…..on TMM statement…., mightbe my delivery it just not right……, please go over my comment’s if you have ample time to spare in this Forum.
We belong to the same school of THOT’s. Cheers.
Dear Folks, please please please!
The “Islam” we are referring to must be clearly understood, there is only One Islam!
“Islam started with the first, i.e. Prophet Adam a.s.”
Not with the 25th Prophet i.e. Prophet Muhammad s.a.w
Or with Nabi Isa, Nabi Musa, Nabi Sulaiman
The scriptures of the “original one” which is god sent, which was not man handled and misguided by those after the death or passing of the Prophets are accepted by Islam and Muslims today!
6) I refer to your writing, “The verse of the Quran you have quoted is not the argument. Their Ilah(God) for the people of the Scriptures (the Jews and Christians)and our Ilah (God) for the Muslims is One (Allah). But you and I know this refers to people of the Taurat and Injil before Islam”
That is why Islam is the most misunderstood religion of all times, the human beings with their limited brains are trying to play god!
They always trust their brains but not god and the scriptures, that is why we have so much problems in this world, that is why in MALAYSIA the Malays claim they are the rightful owners of Islam!
You speak bad of Islam and you offend the Malays, that is what the UMNO Politicians always claim, they are the rightful guardians of Islam in this country !
The actual fact is they are the real abusers of Islam instead!
dr
,,,the feudalism of malay society is what needs addressing by the existing leadership i.e. the political rajas since they have kind of robbed that role from the sultan rajas. If the value system and ethical code needs changing then either these leaders lead or its up to new leadership like the likes of you and many others to show the way by good examples. Such in a feudal society of ours, leadership plays indeed a BIG role. Its also about time that the islamic faith be properly interpreted to our malay brothers/sisters without fear or favor. Most unfortunately the present malay society indeed needs therapeutic diagnosis and assistence, such is the desperate situation in which most malay find themselves but there is no one to turn too readily. So they can easily be taken advantage of and dominated by dirty politicians and the likes.
,,,In actual fact, all MALAYSIAN society needs such a review, in the attempt to pinpoint our basic faults that must be corrected or adjusted to help progress forward for a better nation.
,,,In ALLAH’s name, lets all utilize this subject issue in good faith and perhaps its just the tip of the iceberg for bigger things.
Hello, drrafick.
Just a minor observation..para 1
Justcie Lau is a She, not He.
Cheers !
Oops.. typo
Corrected
the UMNO fellows are the one who want to play this issue. They need a spark to cos some unrest or to garner votes which they only know how to obtain by making it a race/religion issue/crisis. They can’t get votes based on doing the right thing.
The word Allah has been used for long time in Sabah and Sarawak cos their use B.Indonesia bible. The govt could have done the right thing and allow a B.Malaysia bible and could have used other words instead. also side lining english has also not helped cos many young generations are more comfortable in B.Malaysia which means they need the B.Indonesia bibles. so is this the price to pay for the Sabahans and the Sarawakians to join Tanah Melayu? they are no pendatang and they are no Tanah Melayu.
yes the Herald can be understanding but lets face the facts, the B.Malaysia version is more for the Sabahans and Sarawakians thus the need to use the word Allah which is the word use by them for as long as one can remember before they even join Tanah Melayu to become Malaysia. the govt need to respect the agreements it has entered into but that doesn’t seem to be the case nowadays cos the respect for law and agreement are nil when something is not in favour with UMNO or UMNO’s interest.
and the end of the day, the muslim world has no problem with the word allah being used except Malaysia. and have the Christians abused the word in Malaysia thus far? I think they have behaved in a mature and intelligent manner. can’t say the same about the UMNO goons and cow head folks!
Dear AK
(1) Firstly, we must differentiate ethnicty and religion. That would be the first step to address any worries that anyone has.
(2) We must accept Islam is not owned by the Malays only
(3) To clear any confusion in one’s heart, we must read and educate ourself and our children. For generations, we have been reciting the Quran without knowing the meaning and that is why we are at the current crossroad
(4) You are right that the word Allah must be use in the context of a particular sentence/para and religion.
(5) You wrote,” It is dissonant if you write ” Allah , the Son and the Holy Ghost ”.
I agree if a Muslim believe and write that. For a christian, it is fine and I am fine if that is what they want to believe. However that is not what I believe. I respect their believe and they must also respect my believe. What is important is that we must streghthen our innerself and find the basis to show that Islam is indeed the true religion for ourself as well as for all mankind.
(6) I refer to your writing, “The verse of the Quran you have quoted is not the argument. Their Ilah(God) for the people of the Scriptures (the Jews and Christians)and our Ilah (God) for the Muslims is One (Allah). But you and I know this refers to people of the Taurat and Injil before Islam”
In this context the Verse 46, did not specifically refers to Taurat and Injil but the wordings in bracket was inserted by the Tafseer expert bases on the the totality of the text. The Quran is and must be seen as a reference text for eternety and when we read as such, it must reflect current times.
There is several good writings on this particular web and the following is specifically about the issue on the use of the word “Allah”
http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=29&sub_cat_id=1760
Doc,
Dear AK- Please see below in bold
1. We are talking about publication in Malaysia not the Vatican.
DrR- Yes. I know. I was also talking about malaysia.
And for that matter the argument is a Malay issue. Even though you have Chinese Muslims, Indian Muslims ,etc but in the context of Islam in Malaysia and in the Constitution a Malay is a Muslim.
Dr R- Article 160 of Malaysian Constitution is referred .“The article defines a Malay as a Malaysian citizen born to a Malaysian citizen who professes to be a Muslim, habitually speaks the Malay language, adheres to Malay customs, and is domiciled in Malaysia or Singapore
It is not religion per se . When you touches on the Malays it affects Islam and the same when Islam is touched it affects the Malays deeply.
Dr R- Respectfully agree with you but you must why is that? That should not be the case.
I am not concern on the issue of Akidah as the reason against using the word Allah freely. It is the context of it’s use that matters.
If you really understand the Verse 46- the main point is One (ALLAH). The 2nd point is God is common for the Muslims who submit to the Quran and the people of the Scriptures refering to the Jews who submit to Taurat and the Christians who submit to to the Injil and this reflects even to modern time for people that submit to the true Scriptures. We as Muslims believed in the Quran and that the Quran is protected from being modified but not the case for the Scriptures .
I disagree with you on the point it does not matter in regards to a Muslim belief against the Christian belief. It is discordant to the believe in One (Allah) and at the same time associate Allah as the (Father) with the Son and the Holy Ghost.\
Dr R- I think you misunderstood me. Please review again
Yes. I concur with the leaders that the Aqidah of my muslim friends are shaken to the bones, at the mere mention of Allah by the infidels! That my muslims friends are going to flock and pray enthusiastically at the infidels’ place of worship, at the drop of the pin…
Ya Allah! Only in Malaysia.
Boleh indeed, By Jove!
Gawd Almighty, help us all!
Doc,
What worries me are the Malays/Muslims are again divided on this issue and many other issues. The many arguiments on the right to the use of the word “Allah” are debatable and to me do not make sense.
What is the difference between ” Allah Hu Akbar” or ” God Is Great ” or ” Tuhan Maha Besar ” or ” Allah Maha Besar ” ? More important is in the context of the word “Allah” is used. It is dissonant if you write ” Allah , the Son and the Holy Ghost ”
So , I feel that the word ” Allah” must be used only with conditions and in the context it is spoken and written. The Herald should not use the word “Allah” freely !
The verse of the Quran you have quoted is not the argument. Their Ilah(God) for the people of the Scriptures (the Jews and Christians)and our Ilah (God) for the Muslims is One (Allah). But you and I know this refers to people of the Taurat and Injil before Islam .
Dear AK,
I also have my doubt’s ? So who is this ALLAH in the Hindu Bhajans…?
i. ” Allah Thero Naam Sai Eashwara Thero Naam ”
ii. ” Allah Eshwara Prabhu Parameshwara ”
or just another one ” Eashwara Allah Ek Thumi Ho Karuna Sindhu Raam ”
…….and there is thousands of it, you care to comment ?
Balasi,
I refer to the following website:
http://bhajans.org/dynamic/modules.php?
name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=8&page=2
Let’s look at the original scripts and English translation found in the above site:
allaaha naama bhajo bhajore bhajo
maula naama bhajo bhajore bhajo
naanaka yeshu mahaaviira naama bhajo
shrii buddha deva bhajo bhajore bhajo
shiraDii saaI baabaa bhajo bhajore bhajo
shrii raghuraama bhajo govinda kR^ishhNa bhajo
shrii satya saaI bhajo bhajore bhajo
Translation: Pray to Allah, Naanak, Jesus, Mahavir, Buddha, Rama, Krishna, Shirdi Sai and Sathya Sai.
When you wrote “Allah Thero Naam Sai Eashwara Thero Naam” (and the other two verses as well) in your comment, does the word Allah appear in the original scripts in Hindu? In the original script cited above, you’ll find the word “allaha”, and the word doesn’t begin with a capital “A”. To Muslims, Allah always begin with a capital “A”. Does “allaha” means Allah?
The English translation shows a capitalized Allah but the original script do not; Krishna is capitalized, am I right? Also the translation shows the reciter is praying not only to Allah but also other Hindu gods. In Islam, you cannot equate Allah with any other gods or beings, or anything else for that matter. That’s committing blasphemy. More importantly, by reciting the name of Allah, do the Hindus believe in the same Allah that the Muslims believe in? To Muslims, Allah is One and Only, not three (Trinity) or eight (according to the translation of above Bhajans).
To you it may prove that the word Allah has been used by Hindus and other religions. But using the word does not necessarily mean you believe in it. Using (or saying, reciting) and believing are two different things. In Islamic history, there are many people who pretended to believe and have faith in Islam; they recited Quranic verses glorifying Allah, preached the religion, led people in prayers, but they are, by intention and in their hearts, not Muslims. They are known as “munafik,” and they are still in existence today.
In our daily lives, you’ll find non-Muslims freely using the word Allah, as in “tuan alah” often uttered by the Chinese, and I’ve a Christian friend who sometimes spontaneously utters “Allah,” but that does mean they believe in Allah or become a Muslim. In matters of faith, the most important is true intention (niat in Malay). Obviously the aforementioned Chinese and Christian utter those words without any intention of becoming a Muslim. There are also some Muslims whom I know, mostly western educated, who often utter “Jesus” or “Christ” but they do so spontaneously as a personal expression, without intention, towards something; it doesn’t mean they become an apostate instantly.
Admittedly I do not know much about the Hindu Bhajans, so please correct me if I’m wrong about them (except of course the references to Allah as understood by Muslims).
Balasi,
The correct website address in my earlier comment:
http://bhajans.org/dynamic/
Dear Alizul
I like the way you presented your argument. Very professional. You have earned my respect. Do continue reading and present your views in a professional manner. Thanks