1. When the news of Nik Aziz wanting to have an EGM surfaces, there was a myriad of views in the papers. BN leaders in particular UMNO was having a field day giving their views. No matter which camp is being questioned, it is quite clear that PAS members are divided. For that matter, all political parties in this country has got a team A, B and sometimes C. Therefore I am not too concern about PAS in this respect.
2. Nik Aziz reputation precedes him. As a leader of a state he is well respected. He has earned his respect from many layers of the society. Even the Chinese and Indians in Kelantan also respect him. His actions are based on the need of being fair and are guided by what he learns from the Quran and Prophet Mohamed s.a.w teachings.
3. So when Nik Aziz wanted to have an EGM to address the members on the principle of PAS, it certainly sent shockwaves throughout the nation. The current PAS leaders are more thinking about Malay unity but that is not what PAS is all about.
4. Is the original PAS ideology is about Malay unity? Malay unity is UMNO ideology. The name UMNO itself reflects their ideology. At the turn of the century, urban Malays are questioning UMNO ideology. Many can see that in UMNO some are more equal than others. As a result people sees that UMNO has become an elite group that champions and protect the interest of select few in the inner circle.
5. If the current PAS leadership is now following UMNO it certainly an issue of concern for Malays at large as well as PAS members. People who are true to PAS ideology must be able to see that Islam is not for Malays. Islam is also for non Malays. There is room in Islam for non believers.
6. PAS need to see itself beyond the boundary of racialism. In PR, they must show their credibility. They must be the leader of the pact and PKR can be glue that binds all the coalition members. To be the leader of the pact, they must show that they are able to lead in a way that the Islam teaches us. It must earn the respect of the other coalition members that it can act fairly for all as wanted by Islam. In Perak, we see Nizar can do it. I am sure there are many more Nizar out there in PAS.
7. This is what I see Nik Aziz has in his mind. I believe he saw that there is a need to develop a system that ensures justice and fair for all. A system where there is two strong coalitions that will contribute a check and balance in the country political system. If PAS and UMNO forms a union, then there will be no long term impact in this country. Malaysia will continue to be a racial based country. In the long run, the people will be divided by the politicians.
8. Whatever it is, that is what my crystal ball tells me. I might be wrong but I hope I am not. PAS can be better than UMNO. It can be the leader of the coalition but for that to happen it needs to push to the forefront leaders that can see the big picture. It needs to earn the respect of other coalition members as well as the respect of the people. It has to weed out the narrow minded members who think Islam is for the Malays only.
PAS is much more credible than PKR.
Their vision to have an Islamic state has never been changed. I believe Abdul Hadi and the rest of PAS leadership will never consider a coalition with UMNO.
I give DSAI and Azmin another few years before they “kembali ke pangkal jalan”……………… rejoining UMNO with reason “for the sake of Malay unity”
Watch my word. It happened to Ku Li, Datuk Shahrir, Rais Yatim, Taufik Tun Dr Ismail and Musa Hitam…. the so called the hardcore of Semangat 46. Semangat 46 had more credible leaders and better financial resources !
PAS is definitely credible ! Never underestimate them !
PAS is not in disarray. Knowing how they work & method, the mainstreampress is spreading this lie.
Message From Dr Rafick For All Of Us,
Hi Balasi and others
My apologies for not putting up any posting of late. Nothing serious. I was bogged down with transboundary work. This weekend when I finally wanted to write, my computer failed. Dell will only service on monday.
Till then, I want to say my piece abt school and politics.
Have a nice day
Can’t do it via my blackberry..
drrafick
November 7.2009- will it make a different?
PAS was mooted and born out of a cross influence from Ikwanul Muslimin (Egypt),Masyumi (Indonesia) and Jamaat Islami (Pakistan).
The idea came as early as 1948 to Dr Burhanuddin al_Helmy and Ustaz Abu bakar al-Baqir.
In 1951 a convention was held in Seberang Perai headed by a Ulamak Sheik Abdullah Fahmi who was Penang Mufti.
The issues of Natrah who denounce Islam as her faith,licensed gambling activities,funfair,cabaret and other issues which contradict with Islam and political direction which was not in line with Islam as ad-Din at that time (1951) give birth to PAS.
Haji Ahmad Badawi a islamic schcolar in Seberang Perai came out with a manifesto name ‘Manifesto al-Badawi’ with a theme
“Ulamak Ke jalan Allah” which denounces any form of man made ideology by western imperalist.
In 1953,under the leadership of Tuan Guru Hj Ahmad Fuad Hassan dan Dr.Hj Abbas Alias the idea of getting the non muslim cooperation has been setup.At the same time they were advocating that ‘jus soli’ should not be ”a lost” to the pribumi and insisted Islam to be the basis of an independent Malaya.
In 1956,under the leadership of Dr.Burhanuddin al-Helmy PAS wants an the struggle of Malayan Indepent include the Malay Archipealago and safeguard the Malay Nationalism and Ketuanan Islam.
“Dalam perjuangan kita (PAS) bagi mencapai kemerdekaan,kita telah dan terus menerus memperjuangkan Melayu itu sebagai Kebangsaan bagi negara Tanah Melayu ini dengan bertapak diatas asas ideologi Islam yang Maha Suci”
This ideologi bear fruit when in early years of election Kelantan and Terengganu were ruled by PAS with islamic ideology base on al-Quran and al-Sunnah.
In around 1973 PAS join the ruling coalition and which later known as Barisan Nasional.They join the coalition in this new political era with the intention to upheld Ketuanan Melayu and instilling Islamic value (penerapan nilai nilai islam) in the ruling government.
In 1977,Kelantan was a political struggle among the party members which led to the party loosing Kelantan.
In 1982,under the era and leadeship of Tuan Hj.Yusuo Rawa,PAS return to it former struggle and in step to getting the cooperation from the non muslim the party started a Majlis Perundingan Cina,(CCC) where they get the necessary input from the non muslim community regarding the need and welfares of them.
On the other side that is BN government started to instill islamic values(penerapan nilai nilai islam) in running the government with setting up of International Islamic University,Bank islam and so on.
At the same time UMNO was recruiting some islamic scholar and islam activist from various group and NGO such as ABIM to thwart of PAS influence in the young and educated.
Indirectly this political race has created who is hollier than thou attitude,each try to outdo another.And the dilema whether the country should maintain its seculiarism outlook or Islamic started.
Will PAS be able to distance itself from it stand to create an islamic country which is ruled by islamic law?
Article 5 of PAS constitution stated that:
(1) Memperjuangkan wujudnya didalam negara ini sebuah Masyarakat dan Pemerintahan yang terlaksana didalamnya nilai-nilai hidup Islam dan hukum-hukumnya menuju keredhaan Allah.
(2) Mempertahankan kesucian Islam serta kemerdekaan dan kedaulatan Negara.
So,will November 7 make any “real” different? .Can they go against their constitution?
Mind me.
pelangisenja,
Nice right up, very enlightening….., but…you youself can see the dates. You were not even born then.
What PAS has to do is to reinvent itself… to be relevant to Main Stream Politicis. Then we can weigh the Pro & Cons.
Talking about 7/11……., other then a few from PAS…, it will be a farce…, bet you teh tarik.
Pelangisenja
Good effort to relay the information.
Tok Lupa.
how are you? busy lately?
kahwin muda kah apa ni .
cheer up guys!.
pelangisenja
Chickens and ducks finished feeding. Some resting while other roaming. Waiting for next feeding ….
PS: Just got back the streamyx to be online.
nxforget,
true indeed,everyone is waiting for the feeder (drrafick).he might be cooking the best food for us to feed on.
have a good night sleep. don’t notty2 okey.
nxforget,
It”s just a lull (calm) before a storm…., believe me it’s going to be a ” PERFECT STORM “……, that’s the reason for lazing off.
Doc is working on it….., just wait.
where has everybody gone? cuti cuti 1Malaysia?
pelangisenja,
Like my Primary school Motto ” Work Hard, Play Hard “, we also need to relax hard mah!
Release stress…, commenting.
Dr. Rafick,
Just back to your blog after reading ” The Truth Emerges ” in Malaysiatoday.
If after reading this interview with TOK MAT……, and we still don’t believe TOK GURU….., we are DOOM.
We now should know why TOK GURU is so adamant in not wanting to have any so call unity talks with these snakes.
Bitten once terus mampus….., kalau tidak, faham faham sajalah. Lama lama terus karat.
Sedarlah wahai penyokong “CHANGE.”
To SABAHANS….please ….read this and digest it so that you don’t get Constipation. If you do have go look for ” Pill of Change.”
Hello Balasi,
Agreed..A MUST Read review….esp.on how the Propaganda machinery works!..including toppling the PAS Govt in Kelantan.
The Truth Emerges…from Malaysiatoday.com or Malaysia-Today.net(mt.m2day.org) ?
Read it from here:
http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?file=/2009/10/25/lifebookshelf/4875594&sec=lifebookshelf
BTW, For general info – Malaysiatoday.com was setup to confuse and divert visitors of Malaysia-Today.net(RPK) to its site, especially when googled.
correction.! It should have read sedarlah penyokong anti change.
Dr.Rafick,
My old man use to say…., when one ages……he mellows, but not on his stance at the expense of his character and principals that he behold ……for he is answerable to GOD.
They become WISER…, they see the Truth….they see the Cons…., they realise their mistakes…, they also make sure others…don’t get swayed like them….when they were naive…..and taken for a Ride…, THAT’S MY TOK GURU N.A.
Correction to : “I, for 1 would (NOT) want to be betrayed by PAS one way or the other when they say/claim one thing but do another.”
“It has to weed out the narrow minded members who think Islam is for the Malays only.”
Dear Dr Rafick,
I believe that non muslims and non malays would, by and large, have no objection to Islam being confined to the Malays only. The objection would be when Islam is being foist on them unilaterally in 1 way or another.
Other than that.
I think the current issue that has been brought up by NA is a good thing for PAS, Malaysian politics and also for all Malaysians in general.
If it will forced out the stance of PAS on an endless list of issues and matters that are of concern to Muslims and non muslims alike, then at least we will all be very clear of where PAS will lead us to should it ever gain or be given the power to govern this country.
That would allow us all to make an informed decision whether to support PAS or otherwise in any future election to come. I, for 1 would want to be betrayed by PAS one way or the other when they say/claim one thing but do another.
Mycuntree,
The account of yesterday nights meeting would put us all on a better platform to decide for the future…, lets wait for the out come.
Anyway….you were missing A.W.O.L. for sometime…, next time Dr. Rafick..will court marshall you. Cheeers Bro.
mycuntree
(1) I refer to my caption that you quoted in your comment
(2) What I meant is not the religion is to be enforce on non Muslims. Islam is universal. There are many non malays who are muslims.
(3) The positive value of Islam is the same in all religion.
(4) No religion propagate negative value. It is the people with narrow minded interpretation that does so
My premonitions are that PAS, is going to relieve themselves from a strong Islamic Stand, to a moderate Kelantanese Islamic Administrative Practice, which has been formadible and fair, to all races.
I think that would be the advice given to Hasan Ali and Selangor PAS Leaders. Except for the exceptional ones, like Khalid Samad and other few who has been very supportive of Pakatan Rakyat Administration.
PAS leaders in Selangor especially Hassan Ali as Commisioner of PAS, has not said a word on the Kepala Lembu issues till today, very astonishing. The problem with Hassan Ali is he is a Kelapa Yang Terlalu Masak, from his days in Biro Tata Negara. It will take him a long time to transform but, he would make a good administrative officer, behind the desk. Well!!!! lets see.
oettinger,
Still awaiting your reply to respond……, just had afew hours of discussion after progress meeting.
Got a few fact’s….., but need to read your response first.,
…or should we call it a day on his topic.
sorry mate. was out since yesterday. just got back.
will respond soon.
cheers.
time to move on guys. if not take it to another forum or personal blog. topic is about TGNA and pas.
Rocky,
I agree with you.
You must be dreaming Doc! Be REAL! PAS will NEVER be the Pakatan Leader! Over DAP dead body.
and in Perak who was the MB for PR? and who still remains an MB till today. so DAP and PAS can work, it is the enemy within which is an issue. DAP knows and so does everyone that the PM needs to be a Malay but one who is honest and clean is what everyone wants. Thus a PAS that is for all can be a leader but not lead by Hasan and Nasa.
Rocky,
Totally correct,…alas..you forgot Hus the cat. Pedigree leaders are there in PAS…Husam and Khalid Samad are the most exceptional ones. Given the chance they can take Malaysia.. to a new dimension.
Ladies & Gentlemen,,
“MIND BLOWING”, ” ANSWER TO PRAYERS” Read it to Feel it. Forget Indonesia.
http://steadyaku-steadyaku-husseinhamid.blogspot.com/
Thanks, Dr Amrit for the link. 2 interesting articles by HH.
1.CHANGE !
2. Change that we want? FROM what TO what?
“The first point I want to make is this. Malaysia is not UMNOs or Najibs to do as they like. This is our country!
Najib’s job as Prime Minster is to improve life and working conditions in Malaysia for its Rakyat.”
This particular point needs to be publicised throughout the country…By word of mouth, in blogs sphere, letters to editors,etc. A wake-up call so to speak !
Enough of the “do as they like” mentality or syndrome !
(apology to Dr.rafick for the digression from main topic).
GhostBuster,,
Did you read the topic on “WARRANT OF ARREST”. That is interesting. Just scroll down further.
Dr. Rafick Ji,, Adab,,
Maybe you can raise a topic, for our discussion from the steadyaku47 link regarding the Warrant of Arrest for IGP, Syed Hamid Albar and Hishamuddin.
Perkara UG ini bukan sahaja mengguris hati bukan melayu tetapi hati pengundi melayu itu sendiri.
kami mengundi PAS pada PR12 lalu bukan kerana kami sukakan PAS tetapi kerana kami BENCIKAN BN/UMNO, ulang sekali lagi, BENCIKAN BN/UMNO.
tup tup lepas pilihan raya keluar berita PAS berunding dalam gelap dengan UMNO. APA CERITA NI!!!! mana tak marah….so apa yang PAS cakap sepanjang kempen pilihanraya tu nak campak kat mana?? apa ni, kata ulamak tetapi bilamasa pula ulamak dibenarkan BERBOHONG????!!!!
lepas tu, sampai la ni tak selesai-selesai lagi masalah UG ni, tenggelam timbul tenggelam timbul.
kalau macam nilah gaya kepimpinan PAS, nanti PR13 kami rakyat akan sama-sama PERLINGKUPKAN pas. biar sedar sikit depa ni, masih lagi dibuai mimpi fikir depa dah kuat.
ps- dalam pas ini ulamak yg saya hormati hanya Tuan Guru Nik Aziz & Ustaz Ahmad Awang. yang lain tu…tepuk dada tanyalah selera
dila,
This is what the Guys in PAS ….., not align to TGNA fail to understand…, falling from the frying pan into the furnace.
Why not wait….till the next election …, see the faith of the FROGS….., before you intend to participate in UNITY talks.
The three or more Bongs in PAS ….., have no brains…., even if they had, it was at the wrong end.
dila….., welcome aboard.
yeah, dila,
next general election just give ur vote to bn…that shud make malaysia a better place…
tres,
Are you sure…!… so we can become bigger idiots then what we are after five decades of them ruling.
oettinger,
Lets start our forum…..,
i. Are we talking about Indon…or Tanah Melayu…, get the facts right and we can proceed.
have to agree with you on this. which country are we talking about? we all know who brought islam to Malaysia and the origin of sumatra is good to know. Chinese came here when..hang Li Po, laksamana Cheng. but well lets move on. we have many other issues to pursue. one should start a new blog to argue origin of Islam in SEA as a topic cos that will cover Malaysia and Indonesia.
i was speaking of islam which came from indonesia. and tanah melayu came after that. so do not get me wrong here.
this is a brief history of the spread of islam in malaysia and from my findings, here i state my findings. allow me liberty to express my findings.
The first entrance of Islam into Southeast Asia started with Indonesia. The date of the entrance of Islam to the region is a speculative one because of the uncertain historical records, however, there are some interesting facts that attrack the attention of the researchers who have different opinions about the date. According to some records, the first Muslims of Indonesia had come from the line of Hussein b. Ali, the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Indonesia’s Muslim scholars and scientists indicate that there had been some relations between the Muslim Arab seamen and traders and the folk of Indonesia at the time of Prophet Muhammad and that Islam -originating from Arabia- was introduced to this area between the 7th and 8th centuries (Hijriyyah 1). Some scholars agree that in the year of Hijriyyah 30 or in 651 A.D, Uthman ibn Affan sent a group of people to China in order to introduce Islam. During their journey the group stopped in Indonesia and it was the first time that this region met with Islam. The first written resource about the entrance of Islam into Indonesia is the gravestone of Fatima b. Maimun, dated in 1082, in the Village Leran of East Java. Ibn Battuta, a famous Moroccan traveler, also says that while he was going to China in 1345, he stopped off in Sumatra and reports that Islam was already widespread in that area for a century. Moreover he adds that the king of Sumatra, Melik ez-Zahir, belonged to Shafii madhab and organized meetings with the religious leaders of the time, to speak about Quran chanting and religious topics. Finally, according to the Venetian Marco Polo’s report, while he was going to North Sumatra in 1292 he witnessed that the folk of Perlak was already Muslim; in this respect, there is a consensus that the Indonesian people had met with Islam for the first time in the 12th -13th century, via the traders, Sufism and marriage. The first known records show that the first Muslims were royal kingdoms and the traders. North Sumatra was the first place where Islam had reached and Malaya, Brunei, Malacca and the Southern Phillipines succeeded.
Banda Aceh, which is one of the places that Islam has reached within the Indonesian borders, has a more significant place than the above-mentioned districts. It is the first place where Islam has reached in Southeast Asia; and because of its leadership in spreading Islam to other places, it is called “Serambi Mekah” (The Backyard of Makkah). According to a view, Acehnese people had met with Islam between the dates 846-950 whereas for another view, Aceh people were honored with Islam in 600s. Some Acehnese believe that in the early years of the 12th century an Arab called Abdullah Arif made a great contribution to the spread of Islam in Aceh. The Arabian traders established the Sultanate of Aceh in 1000 and the spread of Islam in Aceh began when the Sultanate of Aceh converted to Islam in the 13th century. Portugal’s invasion of Malacca in 1511 and its oppression over Malay society motivated the Acehnese to promote their religion widely. In the mean time, the book of a Portuguese chemist, Tomé Pires, is considered to be one of the most important records about the entrance of Islam into Indonesia and his observations depict Java and Sumatra of the 16th century. According to the records of Piers, from Aceh to the east coast of Palembang, most of the Sumatran kings were Muslim.
As for Malaysia, historians suppose that Islam reached this area in 674, forty two years after Prophet Muhammad had died and when Muawiyah was in power in Damascus. In 878, the coast of Malaysia converted to Islam. The ulama of the region played an important role in the spread of Islam. The process of the spread much easier thanks to the Islamic teachings of the ulama which had reached the officials, rulers and leaders. On the other hand, there’s a largely shared conviction that Islam came to Malaysia in the 12th century with the Indian traders from South India; and by the efforts of Sultan Muzaffar Shah I of Kedah, the first ruler who converted to Islam, the religion was promoted throughout all the region. According to an Indonesian Islamic scholar, the development of Islam in Indonesia and Malaysia dates back to the time of the Chinese Muslim, Zheng He. The Chinese Muslims came from China and settled in the area in the 15th century and with the influence of Zheng Che, many mosques were built in Malay, Java and Sumatra region. Zheng Che was a Hui, in order words he was ethnically Chinese but religiously Muslim. Since he was a mariner he went to the Southeast Asia and left his Muslim crew here. In this way, he contributed to the spread of Islam in the peninsula.
Hope that this suffices for now
oettinger,
You talked about Batu bersurat in Trengganu…., when was it’s orgin.
Then you talked about the nine WALIS….., who were they prior to becoming Muslims.
Islam reacing the Indon shore just after 42 years…, since Nabi died is far fetch….., please qoute..your sources.
I would seek a reply from you…., while I browse the net for more Info.
I have great respect for Nik Aziz, Nizar Jamalludin & Khalid Samad. They are real Malaysian at heart whom are muslims.
I CANNOT say the same for PAS President, by the way who is the fella, never hear him come out to comment on any issue.
Hassan Ali, this fella I can remember, because he created so many controversial issue. Wa… some more got PHD, what a brainer and intellectual person. Whoever the PAS President, please step aside for Hassan Ali.
PAS for All!
wave33,
Agree with you,….but if they have NUTS HA / BUT NAS & TA KU HA……, then PAS will not be PAS for all but PAS for their Rears….., smart….idiots…but only good enough to butter others.
These and the other irelevant PAS leaders who propagate unity ….., should kiss their own arse…!
Nik Aziz realises that PAS is now the archilles heel of Pakatan Rakyat. Of late, its performances were hardly impressive. Not only PAS almost lost in Manek Urai, it got trashed by UMNO in Bagan Pinang.
All these could be attributed to the rash actions of its pro-UMNO leaders like Hasan Ali, Nasharuddin Mat Isa and Hadi Awang who seem to have lost touch with the ground after 318 general election and has instead become more and more arrogant.
The writings are on the wall and, if left unchecked, the consequences would surely be tragic for both PAS and PR in the coming by-elections.
Therefore, I feel Nik Aziz is right in calling for a special muktamar to sort out the problematic issue of PAS leadership.
PAS has to go on a RECALL drive. That is back to the STATE OF TERRENGGANU. While TGNA has been at the helm of KELANTAN for the last 20 years,,,what did Hadi do to Terrengganu in one term. He was kicked out by the very people who gave him support. Does he not realise that, he has a second opportunity with PKR and DAP, to redeem the lost image.
He as President should be shutting up characters like Hasan Ali, Mustapha Ali and Nassaruddin. These guys can’t cause the same damage that happened in Terrenganu. The other person to be put on to a straight line is PKR’s Zulkifli Nordin.
These guys are not getting the pulse of the Malaysian Pakatan Rakyat Society which, has grown in leagues and bounds. If they keeping behaving in this manner, it could jeorpadise the whole of Pakatan Rakyat.
Lets pray something very good comes out of the PAS meeting. I support TGNA all the way.
In my view, kelantanese & tranung people not the same… don’t oversimplify them..
the same kelantanese gave manek urai huge win in pru12 but not in by-election…remember, pre- pru12, how many by election pas won in kelantan since 1999 until 2004…answer NIL. That’s the same kelantanese…..who gave their votes on general election…
tranung people in my view follow money…soon after trg fell to pas, what mahataik did? Pull oil royalty even though it’s illegal…what happened, many promises cannot be materialized since no money any more… even appointment of ahmad said due to oil royalty…so how?
The problem with PAS has been with consistency. The new leadership has forgotten the promises PAS made before 308. They have deviated from the Peoples’ Declaration which they fully endorsed. The culprits are some of the top leaders who Tok Guru is against. If Tok Guru and PAS in general do not act to correct this deviation, then PAS is doomed. Tok Guru is a man of high esteem and integrity. I do not doubt his wisdom. If he has to breakaway from PAS, than he must. His standing as a man of words is being destroyed by some scums in the name of Islam, for their own benefit.
Doc,
Very clearly written piece. TGNA is obviously a statesman and less a politician. Included in my list of living Malaysian statesmen are Kuli and Musa Hitam. TGNA sees the bigger picture-the need to rule the people fairly based on righteous principles developed over many centuries of human existence. Your point 5,”There is room in Islam for non-believers” is comforting and I am sure TGNA subscibe to this principle too. Therefore no one particular race or religion should dominate human affairs such as politics, economic and social activities.
PAS must show to the non-Muslims in Malaysia that it’s better than UMNO by not thinking short-term,wanting power to rule by whatever means e.g secret power sharing talk in Selangor just after 308 with Hassan Ali as MB. It must demonstrate a strong moral character by choosing leaders who are level-headed, not easily bribed or tempted by offer of positions and not speak with forked tougues. Do as what you say and mean it. They must show us they are not political “lalang”.
Cheers.
just cant trust pas.both the devil and deep blue sea.
too much beer talks and hide and seek..
I concur with you that there should be check and balance. Human are infallible and will succumb to greed if left unchecked. Power corrupts and an effective 2 party system should be on the card. BUT what we are experiencing today is that BN and PR are competing on the negatives. Both trying to outdo the other. The policy of favouring one’s race be it Malays, Chinese & Indians based on handouts and subsidies attract the votes. There surely are capable and hardworking Malays, Chinese and Indians that should be given opportunies to develop this country to be on par with Singapore, Korea and Hong Kong in terms of quality services and quality living.
It will be a blessing when we see the day we are able to vote our MPs and Aduns not based on party but ability.
Dear Dr,
just a feedback that the new format you are using is NOT very user friendly Im using an Iphone to access. Keep up the good work
I have not change the format… In fact, I dont even know how to change it..
Islam has got nothing to do with ‘adat’.
There is only ’sunnah’ in Islam.
Adat belongs to ‘races’ and ‘ethnics’.
thats what i meant. but people these days in general live and toy around with adat. so, how do you explain that? err, you know better. kindly explain by giving us substantial explanation please. thank you.
I think most of you are missing the main issue here?
PAS leaders are elected by the members and just because one of the members are not ‘happy’ with them,he cannot demand for a new election!
Democracy has its weaknesses and one of them is that the majority is not always right.
Maybe,the PAS members make an error in electing the officials but then they will have to wait for the next election.
Sacking people who disagree with you is not a democratic practice.Only DICTATORS DO THAT!
Kassim,
I agree with your view except for the last paragraph.
No one is sacking anyone here. Calling for an EGM is perfectly within the rights of Tuan Guru Nik Aziz.
Whatever decisions PAS delegates make, to hold EGM or not, or the agenda of the EGM is also up to them.
Lets not jump the gun and start calling names shall we?
Kassim
The right of every member to ask for an EGM is prescribed in the Organization Constitution. Anyone can call for EGM. He just need to meet the minimum requirement.
That is what association is all about. It is about check and balance within the organization.
Dr. Rafick,
On the whole I agree with you…., but not on item (7).., for
the gains that UMNO intends to gain with Malay unity in the Peninsular will have negative gain off chain reactions in the East.
More over we have come across Malays that don’t believe in handouts like what UMNO do…., they are some who even question the discounts given to Bumi’s for purchasing highhand properties….., knowing that this is subsidized by the non malays…..!
Some, if I may qoute…., have even voice the silence of all the JAI in the states and also JAKIM stand towards such idiocy. Is this hand out not ” HARAM ”
The discount can be better use to help the less privilege of all races…, if Doc. got me right.
Dr. Rafick,
Tok Guru had learned his lessons from the 1978 episode…,
for he knows very well the ” Wolf in the Sheeps Clothing “, knowing so well he knows very well the out come of future corporation with these guys.
You go in partnership with these guys in full clothing…, and you might not even come back with a cloth on your bare back… ” FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR THESE GUYS IN PAS WHO GLAMOUR FOR POST IN THE NAME OF MALAY UNITY ”
Ridding them off is like, tackling cancer at it’s infant stage.
PR is different from BN where all the parties in PR are multi racial! But some in PAS have been taken for a ride under the Ketuanan Melayu and Malay unity and they have forgot what Islam preaches. Malay is Islam, Islam is not Malay. They also thirst for power as in BN model. TGNA call is good cos once and for all it is time to clear the air and he has to steer PAS to the right direction now instead of next year. a split PAS but one that wants to be in PR is better than a PAS that has 2 different direction
wrong rocky. islam is and was never malay at all. just because islam came from indonesia does not make a malay a muslim. sorry to blunt here but you must understand one thing that if there was no islam, there would be no malays.
shame on these malays for they only know how to live on adat and not living in and within the sunnah of Rasulullah. its only day in and day out adat and adat and nothing else.
imagine when a widely read muslim walks into a village and tells the older generation of malay folks what islam is, they would be really offended.
how juicy it can get, dont get me wrong. people here in malaysia, especially certain individuals have made good and full use of islam to their patronage.
I know Islam is more than Malay. and if i’m not wrong it was Indians who brought islam to Malaysia but off course islam is from Saudi Arabia.
it wasnt the indians rocky, that brought islam into the country. it was the chinese. it was people who came from places like yemen and samarkand. not indians.
oettinger/ Rocky,
Both of you are wrong…!, let’s wait for others to comment before I barge in a again.
But let me just say my two cents worth for futher deliberation…, no Hindu Malays…., means no malay muslims ( check history first )
All the adats being practice now in the name of Malay adat is all borrowed from others…, I stand to be corrected…., but I don’t think I’m wrong and no offence meant.
(1) Malays who study history will appreciate that their forefathers practice Hinduism and Animism.
(2) The Indian culture still stays in the practice of the Royal house hold till today. If one were to study the various Royal house hold rituals, musical instrument, head gears and many others we can appreciate the fact that the Hinduism influence still remains till today but with some degree of variation
Islam came to SEA via traders from India and the Arab world.
balasi, go check your facts whom were the first muslims in this country. it was the chinese mind you and they converged to places like kelantan and terengganu. there is a batu bersurat in terengganu existing at its spot to show evidence.
secondly, malaysia or kepulauan melayu….the malay archipelago….if we are talking about hinduism and animism, dr raffick, you are right. initial history of rituals and so forth. islam came into malaysia by different ways and means. the chinese, indians – the governing majapahit and srivijaya, we speak of parameswara. even in indonesia for that matter, islam came to indonesia via the sacred saints or what we call wali songo (9 revered saints) go google up for wali songo –
sunan gresik – maulana malik ibrahim
sunan ampel
sunan giri
sunan kalijogo
sunan drajat
sunan muria
sunan gunungjati
sunan drajat
sunan bonang
so, i will dig more. i cannot answer something academic right now. you come to me, i will give you the answers
oetinnger,
Islam was brought to Indonesia by Muslim Traders Middle East, than Northern Indian Muslim Regions of Karachi, Gujerat, Sind, Kerala,Karnatka, Afgahnistan, Iran, Iraq and Maharashtera. Their presence are very much visible in their characteristics of Indian Cultural Practices.
If you are familiar with the walis. These walis are Indonesians but they acheived the highest order of Islam in Indonesia.
In the process of the fall of the division of Hindu empire, these Walis had integrated the practices of Islam with adats of Hinduism.
The adats of Hundism like bulan Purana(Puranmashee), Fasting( Dharna), marriages are still strongly followed by Indonesians.
Sumatra by its Historical name is actually, Surajmatha. its name from Sanskrit.
SURAJ = Suraj which is the SUN
MATHA = is the forhead.
When travellers from India were to leave the tip of Ceylon the next land that came to sight was SURAJMATHA ie, the first land sighted by the ship, heading into the rising sun, taht is felt on the forehead. This name is documented in the travels of Guru Nanak in 1500s, during his visit to East Asia.
I stand to be fed with more information.
Wrong : bulan Purana
Correct : bulan Purnama
dr,
thanks for replying and others. we know it was the indian and arab traders. seems that we are off tangent here with Indonesia and the walis. maybe what we learned in history books back then was wrong. I know current history books are crap cos they don’t acknowledge many things, it is like live started in Malaysia since Parameswara.
this is what i understand on the history on islam across indonesia.
The first Indonesians to adopt Islam are thought to have done so as early as the eleventh century, although Muslims had visited Indonesia early in the Muslim era. The spread of Islam was driven by increasing trade links outside of the archipelago; in general, traders and the royalty of major kingdoms were the first to adopt the new religion. Dominant kingdoms included Mataram in Central Java, and the sultanates of Ternate and Tidore in the Maluku Islands to the east. By the end of the thirteenth century, Islam had been established in North Sumatra; by the fourteenth in northeast Malaya, Brunei, the southern Philippines and among some courtiers of East Java; and the fifteenth in Malacca and other areas of the Malay Peninsula. Through assimilation Islam had supplanted Hinduism and Buddhism as the dominant religion of Java and Sumatra by the end of the 16th century. At this time, only Bali retained a Hindu majority and the outer islands remained largely animist but would adopt Islam and Christianity in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.
Despite being one of the most significant developments in Indonesian history, historical evidence is fragmentary and generally uninformative such that understandings of the coming of Islam to Indonesia are limited; there is considerable debate amongst scholars about what conclusions can be drawn about the conversion of Indonesian peoples. The primary evidence, at least of the earlier stages of the process, are gravestones and a few travelers’ accounts, but these can only show that indigenous Muslims were in a certain place at a certain time. This evidence cannot explain more complicated matters such as how lifestyles were affected by the new religion or how deeply it affected societies. It cannot be assumed, for example, that because a ruler was known to be a Muslim, that that the process of Islamisation of that area was complete; rather the process was, and remains to this day, a continuous process in Indonesia. Although it is known that the spread of Islam began in the west of the archipelago, the fragmentary evidence does not suggest a rolling wave of conversion through adjacent areas; rather, it suggests the process was complex and slow.
In the late fifteenth century, the powerful Majapahit Empire in Java was at its decline. After it had been defeated in several battles, the last Hindu kingdom in Java fell under the rising power of Islamized state Sultanate of Demak in 1520. Islam in Java then began to spread formally, largely influenced by the Wali Songo (or the Nine Saints).
To a significant degree, the striking variations in the practice and interpretation of Islam — in a much less austere form than that practiced in the Middle East — in various parts of Indonesia reflect its complex history. Introduced piecemeal by various traders and wandering mystics from India, Islam first gained a foothold between the twelfth and fifteenth centuries in coastal regions of Sumatra, northern Java, and Kalimantan. Islam probably came to these regions in the form of mystical Sufi tradition. Sufism easily gained local acceptance and became synthesized with local customs. The introduction of Islam to the islands was not always peaceful, however. As Islamized port towns undermined the waning power of the east Javanese Hindu/Buddhist Majapahit kingdom in the sixteenth century, Javanese elites fled to Bali, where over 2.5 million people kept their own version of Hinduism alive. Unlike coastal Sumatra, where Islam was adopted by elites and masses alike, partly as a way to counter the economic and political power of the Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms, in the interior of Java the elites only gradually accepted Islam, and then only as a formal legal and religious context for Javanese spiritual culture.
These historical processes gave rise to enduring tensions between orthodox Muslims and more syncretistic, locally based religion — tensions that were still visible in the early 1990s. On Java, for instance, this tension was expressed in a contrast between the traditionalist santri and abangan, an indigenous blend of native and Hindu-Buddhist beliefs with Islamic practices sometimes also called Javanism, kejawen, agama Jawa, or kebatinan. The terms and precise nature of this opposition were still in dispute in the early 1990s, but on Java santri not only referred to a person who was consciously and exclusively Muslim, santri also described persons who had removed themselves from the secular world to concentrate on devotional activities in Islamic schools called pesantren—literally the place of the santri.
In contrast to the Mecca-oriented philosophy of most santri, there was the current of kebatinan, which is an amalgam of animism, Hindu-Buddhist, and Islamic — especially Sufi — beliefs. This loosely organized current of thought and practice, was legitimized in the 1945 constitution and, in 1973, when it was recognized as one of the agama, President Suharto counted himself as one of its adherents.
Kebatinan is generally characterized as mystical, and some varieties were concerned with spiritual self-control. Although there were many varieties circulating in 1992, kebatinan often implies pantheistic worship because it encourages sacrifices and devotions to local and ancestral spirits. These spirits are believed to inhabit natural objects, human beings, artifacts, and grave sites of important wali (Muslim saints). Illness and other misfortunes are traced to such spirits, and if sacrifices or pilgrimages fail to placate angry deities, the advice of a dukun or healer is sought. Kebatinan, while it connotes a turning away from the militant universalism of orthodox Islam, moves toward a more internalized universalism. In this way, kebatinan moves toward eliminating the distinction between the universal and the local, the communal and the individual.
Another notable view is the division between traditionalist and modernist Islam. The nature of these differences was complex, confusing, and a matter of considerable debate in the early 1990s, but traditionalists generally rejected the modernists’ interest in absorbing educational and organizational principles from the West.
Specifically, traditionalists were suspicious of modernists’ support of the urban madrasah, a reformist school that included the teaching of secular topics. Traditionalists also sought to add a clause to the first tenet of the Pancasila state ideology requiring that, in effect, all Muslims adhere to the sharia. On the other hand, modernists accused traditionalists of escapist unrealism in the face of change; some even hinted that santri harbored greater loyalty towards the ummah (congregation of believers) of Islam than to the secular Indonesian state.
Despite these differences, the traditionalist [[Nahdlatul Ulama, the progressive Consultative Council of Indonesian Muslims (Masyumi), and two other parties were forcibly streamlined into a single Islamic political party in 1973—the United Development Party (PPP). Such cleavages may have weakened Islam as an organized political entity, as demonstrated by the withdrawal of the Nahdlatul Ulama from active political competition, but as a popular religious force Islam showed signs of good health and a capacity to frame national debates.
At some time the Islamic Defenders Front, a radical group based in Jakarta, emerged. The Islamic Defenders Front stages “raids” on nightclubs and bars in the city to punish proprietors and patrons who do not adhere to Islamic mores, and has also attempted to barge into foreign-owned hotels for the purpose of expelling Americans and Israelis. The Islamic Defenders Front and similar groups have no official support from the government, but a large number of Indonesian citizens and even lawmakers are sympathetic to at least some of their goals.
my 2 cents worth
oettinger,
Are you sure you want me to respond ?…., it will not look good but the others can gain from it…., emotions…. should not be the basis of commenting in his forum.
Anyway…. all the best to you will reply before dawn.., what are brothers for……., we have to clear each others hiccups.
Always stay as my Bro.
hey balasi!
please do. no worries. this what i read up and wrote it myself. sorry if it sounded emotional but i am definite that i did not mean to sound emotional.
what was written was based on facts, certain phrases needed citation but i was unable to do so in a short span of time. thus, it would be appropriate for us to use this as a little forum to discuss amongst us, perhaps, dr raffick could lead the role in telling us his views. i may be wrong in certain paragraphs, i do not know. but i am sure that i do not have any intentions to blow the trumpet for now.
oettinger,
Your write up was so long…., it will take me sometime to reply…, but reply I would…. before dawn.
We should all realise that we are all above board…, but we should also realise that religion is a sensitive issue…., but not among us for we seek the truth.
Yes, it certainly sent shockwaves when TGNA called to have an EGM.
But, it’s always better for PAS to weed out those half past six leaders who’s thinking of collaborating with UMNO when was offered bushel of carrots.
Let us see if PAS can hold to their words of “PAS for all” and not betraying partners. Are the leaders of PAS Islamic or selling religion for whatever gains for action speaks louder.
nxforget,
You should voice it to HAW / NAS / HA……, this guys have failed the ultimate test…, they will reap it all like they reaped it in 2004.
PAS will be irrelevant not only to PR…., but to all the fence sitters…, like me.
balasi,
If you’ve notice my past postings, I just a fence sitters just like you. I can’t tolerate some of those goons in PAS too.
nxforget,
Can I repeat…., you got one vote…, so do I…, let’s make it count if these goons don’t Repent. Cheers Bro.., you would have enjoyed yourself if you had attented ALI’s Dinner.
Politicians throughout history have tried to solve every problem conceivable to man, always failing to recognize that many of the problems we face result from previous so-called political solutions. Government cannot be the answer to every human ill. Continuing to view more government as the solution to problems will only make matters worse.
Believing we have perfect knowledge of God’s will, and believing government can manage our lives and world affairs, have caused a great deal of problems for man over the ages. When these two elements are combined they become especially dangerous.
Liberty, by contrast, removes power from government and allows total freedom of choice in pursuing one’s religious beliefs. The only solution to controlling political violence is to prohibit the use of force to pursue religious goals and reject government authority to mold the behavior of individuals.
One of the major reasons we’ve drifted from the Founders’ vision of liberty in the Constitution was the division of the concept of freedom into two parts. Instead of freedom being applied equally to social and economic transactions, it has come to be thought of as two different concepts. Some in Congress now protect economic liberty and market choices, but ignore personal liberty and private choices. Others defend personal liberty, but concede the realm of property and economic transactions to government control.
More here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul342.html
Gomen,
I will not comment to your whole write up but will do so on the liberty of religion….., no Government should intrude into this basic freedom of pursuing ones religious beliefs.
We should act just like our neighbour country…., and carry on with business without interferring with ones religious incline.
The duty of the government is to carry out the business of the day…, without dictating its taste for the religion of its choice….., even if its the official religion of the state.
Let the religion function by itself without any interference,
propagating ones religion makes it look so CHEAP…,
all religion should be left to flourish on their own with some minimal grant from the government of the day, for all religion preaches…. the very best of good deeds…..,
sharing the good times and pain stakingly bearing with patience the bad times are the norm of all religious faith in this land of ours.
Segregating the people of this land even after death in the hospital mortuary by placing them in Bilik Jenazah and Bilik Mayat speaks…volumes of our mentalitiy.
Where did we go wrong….? Was there some wise guys who wanted to act more then the teachings in their religion,without realising that at the end of the day we are all answerable to the one and only GOD.
Just like the saying men proposes god disposes…., who are we ……, just like chicken to be slaughtered when left free from is confinment only can run in circles.
So, Best Tepuk Dada Tanya Selera!
Gomen,
I was not disputing what you wrote…., I totally agree with you on the liberty of religion….., and wanted to add some thoughts. Hope you understand.
Cheers Bro.
I can sum up in one statement on your topics which, you both have carried facts.
By isolating:
ISOLATE RELIGION AND SKIN COLOUR, FROM PEOLES GOVERNMENT POLICIES AND WE ARE ON TRACK TO A SUCCESFUL RAKYAT AND COUNTRY IN THE NAME OF A SINGLE MALAYSIAN RACE.
We were in a strong, productive and an ascending position to uptrends, before all Good Factors of NEP, were deviated by UMNO/BN for their self benefits supported by MCA, MIC GERAKAN, PPP and all other coalitions in BN.
The slice of cake were directed to their party memebers rather than for the people. The formula of 80% for people and 20% for development, was turned to 80% for political contacts and 20% for people and development.
Keep voting BN and this is what is going to happen ie, RACE BASED, DIVIDE AND RULE, SLICE THE CAKE FOR THEIR BENEFITS, USE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AGAINST THE RAKYAT, AND AN IMPOVERISHED RAKYAT WILL BE EASIER TO CONTROL AND BE MANUPLATED.
some PAS leaders are good and credible while others are terrible at all aspects.
certainly to say, PAS itself is a split party now.
Oettinger,
You might be right…., but I feel…the success that they got on 308 from the non malays had been misconstrued.
Let them prepare for a landing on their bare BUTTS.
TAK SEDAR DIRI KONON PAS FOR ALL.
Hadi, Nas, Hus the Kuching…., pi naik pokok kelapa.
Oettinger take care.
Even if we are in the same party, are we really expected as human beings to think and talk alike?
I still think diversity is a strength rather than a weakness. It offers one “checks and balances”. Having said that, the journey to attainment of objective will be of course be harder as opposing forces are trying to flow as one.
Look at it this way. The difference between UMNO and the others is because it is able to highlight it’s strengths rather than show it’s weaknesses. Don’t you think they are also opposing forces in play in UMNO?
But it is dangerous to cover things up as sooner or later like cancer, is going to manifest itself in the worst possible way, death. We sometimes want to hide the symptons and show a proud and healty face. If we admit there is a problem and find ways to manage it, I am sure even those who oppose you, will admire you for putting up a fight to make it work.
i dont think it will split the pas… in contrast i believed it make pas stronger…pas not dap / pkr…they have gone thru many crisis now, and this one shud be the easy one..
tres,
From your writing…., you seem to be a hard core PAS supporter……, just pray for the best…., but also pray that they rid Hadi, Nas and Hasan the rat.!
Cheers Bro….need for CHANGE!