1. I completely forgot that today is the day that the Thai pathologist Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand (Dr PR) was supposed to take the stand at the TBH Inquest. I was busy attending a seminar and half way through, suddenly by blackberry receives strings of updates from friends and unknown people asking me to read the Malaysian online papers. All of them are now more than ever convinced that TBH was killed in the MACC premises.
2. Dr PR background as a no nonsense person with 10000 post mortem behind her certainly will create a dent in anyone theory that TBH jumped out of the window voluntarily. In my previous CSI series, I have indicated that there is just no motive for him to jump. There are more motives for him to continue living as he is getting married in the next few hours.
3. In her testimony she acknowledges that, Dr PR did not visit the site. She did not examined the body but she based her findings based on the post mortem reports, pictures provided by various parties and findings of her 2 assistants that came over a few months ago. Despite that she is confident enough to conclude that there is an 80% probability that TBH was murdered. Would it be 100% or 50% if Dr PR was on site after the body was found and if she were able to do the PM on the body of the late TBH? In the peoples mind, I believe many would believe that she would have concluded beyond certainty (i.e. 100%) that TBH was murdered.
4. What does this testimony means? To some it may means that TBH was murdered by MACC officers. To me it means a lot more. It means that the entire system which consists of the MACC, Police, the doctors (from Klang and UHKL), and officers in Putrajaya is now on trial.
5. It creates a damning perception among the people on whether the Government Machinery can be trusted to work professionally and independently. The perception is now growing that the interdepartmental cooperation has gone beyond the “professional level”. It appears now that there is a cooperation not to uncover the truth but to cover it up!
6. Based on the earlier court proceedings, there were unusual communication trend between MACC officers in Shah Alam and MACC HQ in Putrajaya while the death took place. This piece of clue and the other related testimonies by MACC officers suggest that they knew what was going on. For that reason, Hishamuddin (MACC No2) had told his staff not to lodge a police report. Despite he was in the office the whole night he was in Putrajaya subsequently and asked his officers to go to Putrajaya and brief him.
7. We must not forget the “surat layang” which gives information on the inner working of MACC and character of their officers and in particular Mr. Hishamuddin. The latest information by Dr PR, the various facts deduced during the inquest and the surat laying must be evaluated as one.
8. I believe Dr PR has strengthened my own theory and deductions that TBH was either dead or unconscious when he exited the window. It seems both of us agreed on the estimated time of death. I am waiting for her to comments on the torn pants as well as with regards to the damage shoe. It points to the fact that he died while he was in custody of MACC. He was never released.
9. This is a very sad day indeed. The public is now more that certain that TBH was murdered in the process of bringing down the Selangor State Government and not merely investigating a corruption. The way he was investigated is certainly different from the way other people like (e.g. Khir Toyo) was investigated. If I am not mistaken, Khir Toyo did not spend a night at MACC. It will further enhance the people believes that there are politicians involves in this whole scheme.
10. Personally, I say it is the best interest of BN government to give up the culprits, punish those who are involved as this will have a long term implications. BN need to sacrifice those people to protect the interest of the political party. Right now managing people perception is far more important than anything else. I suggest they do it before it is too late. To the doctors of Klang Hospital (and UHKL) that were involved in the Post Mortem, they must be pacing in their office…
Continuation: Death at MACC-My CSI XVI – Making sense of the 80% probability
religion,nationalities,race ,creed,political ideologies and colour should in no way be the obstruction or denial for the persue of justice.as a matter of fact we should ALL JOINT UP, BE BANDED TOGETHER AS “1MALAYSIA. — RAAYAT DIDAHULUKAN,PENCAPAIAN DIUTAMAKAN”LET PM LEAD THE WAY TO SEEK HOUNOURABLE TRUTH AND JUSTICE FOR THE FAMILY OF TBH and TBH.Isn`t that what the Slogan is all about– Justice and Accountability- from All to All, the Slogan Oringinator and the Raayat .
Our two pathologists were only following one principle “Tell that much of the truth that will do them the most good” while covering up others which are detrimental to them!!!
Dear Dr Rafick
Don’t forget that there is abuse of psychiatry and the psychiatric profession in Malaysia too.
In the Soviet Union, political dissidents were sent to mental hospitals.
In Malaysia, close relatives of a deceased, victimised political aide are ordered to undergo psychiatric evaluations!
That was what happened to Dr.chee soon juan in singapore.
Its totally disgusting and shameful to witness today a NATION once the PRIDE of Multiracial Harmony and Progress in the 70′s to 80′s, NOW full of Corrupted Top Politicians and Top Civil Servants, including the Top Law Enforcers.
BN Leaders today are a disgraced lot to founding Fathers of Malaysia Tunku, Razak and Hussein Onn.
My 50 year old sister related to me an incident that happened last 2 days, she was about to be summoned by the Police for not wearing a safety belt while driving.
However the Police offered her an alternative, to be release for a price of RM20. But she told the Police to proceed to summon her as she don’t have any RM10 notes. I am proud she is my sister though she is not rich driving an old Kancil.
The Police offered to help her to change the RM50 note!!! Somehow this country is heading for disaster.
Yes the Whole Malaysian system is now on trial. Someone approach me regarding a life & death matter. As a previous QC supervisor he discovered damaging evidence of deliberate cheating and frauds. He brought it up to the management but was forced to resign. He was warned not make trouble or his family would be in danger as clearly evident from a recent accident but his son survived. He can’t turn to the police (as the management has some ties to the PDRM). He lives in fear of his life as his lawyer advised he has no case until they actually kill him first. His suspicion of being tailed and watched cannot be used as proof that they want to kill him. They will probably engineer an accident at some lonely stretch of road as he has to travel in his new job. Any legal advice out there? As I said before, there are many companies (especially politically linked ones)short-changing the public. I believe there are many whistle-blowers out there but no-one to protect them or their family. We cannot ask them to expose if we cannot protect them – like what happen to Bala & family etc. The rot is already too deep and there are too few good and honest cops, judges, govt officials etc to clean up the system. So we keep quiet and live in fear.
Good work, Doc! You’re doing an excellent service to the nation with your conscientious blogging!
We all hope the family Teoh will think positively and demand a second autopsy by Dr Pornthip.
What MACC did to TBH was too sadistic to allow the perpetrators to go scott free.
Shoved something up his bottom, did MACC ?
We cry for TBH !
Let’s not allow them to do to another human being ever again !
If Dr. Prashant is a disgrace, then his findings on Kugan case should not be trusted.
The simple answer is that Dr. Prashant was turned over after his truthful postmortem on Kugan. As a foreigner on a work permit he would be easy to intimidate. Ask yourself, why would the police make use of a pathologist who had shamed and scandalized them over Kugan? Are they suckers for more punishment? The simple answer is in my first sentence.
What is important here is that we, the citizen cannot be pessimistic as to pursuing the course of justice. We need to make sure that our opinions are heard, and that the truth is uncovered. A defeatist attitude will only worsen the situation, and only serves to empower the institutions to continue perverting the cause of justice. Its high time the rakyat stood together and act in order to bring change in Malaysia. And to act is to inform, to pursue the truth, and ultimately to VOTE.
Dr. Rafick,
What has Dr. Prashant Sembekar….., got to gain, from all this testimony…..? . I believe he is lecturing in UMMC on a social visit pass……, If not not why all these crab in the post mortem report.
Dear Balasi
Some people question the validity of Dr Prasant PM report on Kugan. Many failed to realized that the poor doctor was subjected to some serious mental harassment after Kugan report was released.He is in Malaysia, trying to earn a salary.
Has anyone wondered about the answers to the following question
(1) The police territorial boundaries are not the same as the state/district boundaries. When a death happens within a particular area, the body is sent to a specific designated hospital within that area. In the case of Shah Alam, all death that requires PM will be sent to Klang GH.
There are a few pathologist in Klang Hospital but why Dr Prasanth was brought in from UHKL to Klang to do a PM.
(2) This is a mystery. Dr Prasant is not a specific pathologist in the MOH system. If indeed there is a need to have a second opinion, they would have sought the views of other pathologist that is senior Dr Khairul within the hierachy of MOH. Usually that is the prerogative of Dr K or his immediate boss.
(3) In this case, out of no blue, Dr Prasant was brought in. I shall not dwell on the possibilities on why Prasant is brought in but it would not be far fetch to assume that it is to appease the mind of the public that had trusted Dr Prasant report on Kugan but many people failed to realized that Dr Prasant has been made to toe the line after the Kugans report..
Morning, Dr.
My take on why Pathologist Dr.Prasant was “early booking” by the govt.authorities….
So that that Teoh’s family lawyers got no chance to get him to be their appointed pathologist.
That forced Teoh’s lawyers to get the services of Dr.PR from Thailand (too faraway to make it time for the initial autopsy).
In any case, if one goes through a time-line of events
starting from 15 July 2009 onwards, the various statements made by those in power already indicated a pre-determined outcome as to the cause of death.
These included statements from the CPO Selangor, CID Chief at Peace Hill, IGP, Nazri, Home Minister, the PM, AG, MACC, etc.. during the first few days after Teoh was found dead.
BTW, ever wonder why the BLACK BLOG (t4tbh – Most likely a MACC sponspored blog) had been inactive after 10 August 2009 ?
A hunch why Teah ended up dead – HE REFUSED to sign whatever prepared statements that was made and presented by MACC. That blew their top !!!
Who were responsible ? – go through the list of MACC personnel that were subpoenaed to attend the Inquest…
the answer is there.
Those witnesses gave their statements under oath? What happened later if it was discovered or proven that they were telling Lies ? Perjury ??
The whole episode STINKS all the way to the top !!!
The main murderer who has committed two murders should be charged..
Knew all along that TBH was murdered on the directive of the the top guns as he refused to join forces with corrupt regime to bring about the topple of the PR State Government in Selangor.
Dr. Rafick,
If not mistaken…, you predicted the time of dead at about the same time as DR.P.
The best way to solve this it to have a second AUTOPSY.., and TBH has to be exhumed….., hope his soul rest in peace.! The Coroner must agree to it so should his family., all stones turn around…no gimmick.., let study the case.
I also believe that he was not thrown out but drag to be placed where he was found……, just as your CSI…..? I forgot which one.
Keep it coming… congrats…surpass 850,000..visitors.
TBH’s family better put some security at his grave site…..The Body Snatchers might have been summoned….A trained team of elite goons(JAIS,JAIP,JAIJ…etc)….like the many cases that have happened…..
The Body Snatchers..The Sequel…coming soon to a theater near YOU…..
Look after TBH’s tomb/grave…..c4 ed!!!!!!!
I think the best way is that Hishamuddin take the “lie dectector” test.
Yes, I agree with you that perception at this juncture is more important than UMNO/BN.
Najib is singing the RIGHT Tune lately and if he dare to order MACC to go to the bottom of this TBH episode, his popularity will shoot sky-high.
Arrest Dr. Pornthip under the ISA …………………. to protect herself.
Awong.
Agreed that her exhumation findings can be professionally done by her, but, you all think that the results will not be disputted by the powers that be? Meaning to say, forget it lah. Whatever results, findings, revelations and whatnots will be not acceptable as the government culprits must be protected at all costs. Teoh Beng Hock jumped to his death finito! Trying to find justice for a dead man ___ in Malaysia? “And the cow jumped over the moon ___ and the little dog laughed zzzzzzzz.
drrafick
Wonderful to see that it is back to OUR favourite topic. Wonderful to see all with their surge of excitement and be so really to provide their findings.
Whatever shocking revelation we get is of no consequences. The MAAC, Police, UMNO, toyol, Klang &KLUH Drs, and our 1Fellow were all involved. So what ghost of a shadow can justice be served? In fact I fear for the life of the brave Dr PP.
Mat Ku,
Don’t worry..Dr. P, has more then 10,000 souls taking care of her……., I’m more worried about the rest…., I think they hardly sleep at all. Hope you know what I mean.
Let me try to speculate and explain the torn pants. TBH was either unconscious or too weak to struggle when they were trying to carry him over the window and throw him down.
They probably sat him on the window ledge to catch breath as it’s not easy to carry someone his size who is unconscious. When he was pushed down somehow the window handle got in the way and tore his pants and his anus.
sherlock
respectfully, i disagree. He was most likely unconscious when lifted to the window. In my previous writing, I had theorized on how the pants could have torn
Dr Khairul Azman and Dr Prashant Naresh Samberkar both what a disgrace. Just drop the “Dr” infront of their names.
Who can we trust now..Blame those who wanted to topple PR in Selangor…
Those two Malaysian pathologists, should also be sent to prison for collaborating in a murder case.
Law2020 is naive to think the police will go after the culprits in MACC after Dr PR’s testimony, doesn’t he know the police, MACC, the doctors, even BN, they are all in one team in this murder?
Dr. Pornthip also said injuries to Teoh’s chest was due to primary impact from the fall. This shows that Teoh could not be alive when he fell or he could not have fallen on his chest. His arms would be stretched out to take the impact or he would have twisted his body to land on his side.
Against all evidence to the contrary the two disgraced pathologists tried to push their theory of suicide. What do they have to say now? They should be called back to the witness stand for cross examination by Dr. Pornthip. They thought they could fool the public but they forget there are other experts out there.
Disgraceful, shameless and revolting excuse for doctors. They are willing to lie to cover up for murderers just to keep their jobs.
If what the Thai pathologist said is true, it is not difficult to nail down the culprits. I believe it involved a few guys doing the cruel acts. The police just need to nail down the MACC officers who are in the office at the material time (6.00 am to 8.00 am on that miserable day) and offer one of them as witness and the whole true will prevail.
I believe there is still evidence left in the MACC office. It will help if the authority allows the honourable Thai Dr. to do a thorough investigation at the MACC office.
However, I believe the authority is not interested in revealing the whole true from the way they tried to cover up from top to bottom.
Law2020, they already knew all along who did it and how they did it!
Law2020,
It does’nt work that way all along….. idiot’s of the same flock always fly togather…., I hope you garner what I intent to say.
f*&% najib adminstration for such wrong doings
Closed our eyes and we still can see what’s going on, they tried to blind us, they tried to sealed our mouth, and they try to stop the one who tell and write the truth, but they failed, they may escaped from all their evil acts but the god will not let them go free!Remember, not only us is watching, the god is also watching!We all know, one day for those who acted in such cruel way will one day bear the consequences!
I think we Malaysians know for the fact that if you are on the wrong side, whatever right we do is wrong. Therefore this fight with the ruling party is an uphill tasks for all because the ruling party is holding the rights to either put you to sleep or put you away for good and no one, not even the Almighty can help you. Authorities right from the very top is on their side. It’s sad to finally know that we are heading no where after 51years of Independence.
Let the world judge and hear what they have to say about 1Malaysia.
The best detail of Dr. PR’s testimony is carried in Malaysian Mirror. http://malaysianmirror.com/homedetail/45-home/16149-its-80-homicide-20-suicide
The contusions on the neck were not reported in Dr. Khairul and Dr. Prashant’s autopsy reports. It seems that these two doctors omitted key evidence which do not fit in with their theory of suicide.
These 2 doctors have disgraced their profession and their parents. Why cover up for murderers just to keep their jobs? Is there nowhere else they can work with their skills and experience?
I agree with Dr. Raffick that it’s best for MACC to hand over the culprits than to continue trying to cover up and make fools of themselves, incriminate the whole system and cause irreparable political damage to their masters.
But my bewilderment is reserved for the two doctors. Why, doctors? Why?
No more cover-up!
Doc,
Para 10, too late for the BN government to give up the culprits. They acted as one ( Mr.PM, MACC, Police, the 2 pathologists,DNA chemist, and government lawyers ) to convince us ,rakyat, that TBH either committed suicide or was murdered by other than MACC. They will definitely defend their strategy and attack Dr.Pornthip’s findings and credibility.(e.g. how much she paid to do the report etc.).Remeber Mr. PM allowed only an inquest and not a RCI. He knows his government have something to hide.
Watch the MSM , hear what TV3 reports tonight or read tomorrow’s newspapers (esp. Star, Utusan, Berita Harian) .What’s their slant on this news?
Cheers.
Is this testimony from the learned doctor really a surprise?
So the next thing that will happen would be another ‘Kugan’. Those chinese macc people must be shaking in their pants, who will be the kambing hitam….
I have said this before. Unless the MACC can prove that TBH was actually released then he was still in their custody and therefore their responsibility. Whether he jumped or was pushed is secondary.
Have you seen all the police series on TV or ASTRO, as the suspect is led into the police car, somebody will put his hand on his head and push him in. That is to prevent the suspect from hitting his head on the roof (intentionally or accidentally). If that were to happen (hitting head on the roof) you can bet the suspect will sue the pants off the policeman.
Do anyone remember, when the Selangor UMNO/BN chief said during the Selangor UMNO meeting, “we must, at all cost, take back Selangor state, because it is the heart-beat of the economy.
I am not well educated. I am not sure what does it mean by “at all cost”. Can someone explain to me.
I am buta huruf. I am an un-educated old man born in Selangor.
batista
Don’t say you buta huruf an uneducated one lah. Your writings show otherwise. B-)
But, if you are referring to the series of events that was unfold and lead to TBH death, then I’m the same boat as you.
In my mind, it’s just lust for power beside the dough.
What a sad day for Malaysians!
The very institution set up to fight corruption is itself corrupt.
Better to rename MACC as Murder And Corruption Conspirators
this is murder. not just murder a total cover up .this must not be allowed…now we want justice…no longer we can trust on the macc what more the police the courts..we have become a nation of cheat lies and worst,organised murder..not just confined to macc buth those who instruct that murders..are we going to jump beat our chest online or we march forward to macc in 20000..?
Why are we harping on a coverup? To uncover there must be a positive change in the atmosphere and the spirit behind it.
Rather than hoohaing all the nonsense, let’s really make an effort to change what has been done.
Sorry to say Malaysians have very short memory. Something else come into the scene, like the director who was caught with RM300000 in his house,……so the interest is shifted there and BN knows very well to play on the people’s sentiments. Aren’t we fools. Therefore not to be a fool let’s us change. If not good then change again!
i want to do something!!!
i wan to do something!!!
yet i’m still sitting here doing nothing… just carrying my routine jobs days in days out…
justice for teoh?
they will then say the chinese against the malay, turn it into racial / religious issues as always…
becoming emotionless malaysians soon as we keep on silent and allow injustice to take place everyday .
Teoh Beng Hock’s family today said they were considering exhuming the political aide’s body to allow Thai expert Dr Pornthip Rojanasunand to conduct a fresh post-mortem.
Source: http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/115584.
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Please allow it Madam Teoh. Beng Hock’s spirit is speaking through Dr Pornthip now.
It is a painful and agonising moments for the Family……..
The Peoples of M’sia are backing You, whatever your decision.
If it had been more than 49 days, according to mahayana buddhist teachings teohBH would have moved on.
Madam Teoh, it is time that we also move on to see that justice is done. Society is served best, just as TeohBH would have wanted it, when there is justice. Justice for TeohBH is justice for the society and rakyat at large.
Please allow the autopsy be done.
Public Perception… IT WAS MURDER MOST FOUL and we are right We also KNOW the culprits who are responsible for this murder, dont we??
Are we lack of professionalism?!!!!!
Ha, i don’t think BN will recognise Dr PR statement as evidence, just like the foreign doctor for Sodomy II.
Our malaysia boleh (bodoh) court will not take her statement into account as the case involve too many government bodies where a lot of crooked officers will “kena”.
Moreover, her name is PR, same as Pakatan Rakyat. BN will translate it to become opposition party people. This case will end up no evidence to show either teoh is murdered or jumped down. And, BN will make sure no one to be charged, MACC is still “”"clean”"”.
I hope more rakyat will understand that the government ruling party need to be changed in order to save our next generation. We got no more times to waste.
Obviously is a cover-up by MACC for their huge mistake ! M’sia is a f*ck up country run by BN & controlled by UMNO. So many corruptions, rape of country resources, cover-ups , etc. What happend now to the 2 cops in the Altantuya case ? What about Kugan, Bala (went “missing”), investigation of “istana” worth 24 million, etc etc.
The only way for M’sia to have a better governance is to CHANGE the government in the next GE ! For those who still have conscience that have voted BN before, is never too late to change & vote for Pakatan Rakyat ! You can see for yourself what kind of government you get if you still keep on voting BN ! Think of your future generations if you want the country to progress.
I had been saddened very much by what happened and now I want to cry again for the Teoh familyfor not waiting for PR to arrive for the post-mortem
The family was too trusting and ‘conned’ by a pm into believing truth shallllllll…. prevail and justice willlllllll…. be served.
What we saw is :public institutions in cahort to Cover Up the MURDER.
Each and Every Malaysians need our brave woman from neighbouring Thailand, Dr PR to provide leadership in the Lands of Tanah Melayu to ensure “truth shall prevail,justice will be served”
Malaysia Boleh!!
Para 10 1st sentence … I don’t think they can do that. Too much of risk for them to do so. The exposure can bring down a political party as the accused will opened their mouth, sooner or later UNLESS they can do like the “Mongolian” case.
I believe Khir Toyol was involved in TBH’s dead. He is a murderer who is on the run…
Your #4 & #5 points are indeed terrifiying when the whole Government can be 1 big conspiration.
Where does that leave the common man? 1 tiny speck against the titan.
For justice to prevail – it would be best if Teoh Beng Hock’s family allows an exhumation for a 2nd autopsy especially after knowing about the unexplained brutal injuries.
Truth hurts and truth arising out of many lies hurt absolutely. No how to promote 1 Asean and 1 World when even 1 Malaysia we have problem ? Without integrity in places like MACC, Courts and other govt dept of importance, our marketing of this nation to investors worldwide will be just another swan song.
We need investors to return and back us up in order for us to ride the harsh economic situation and only the 1PM6 can do something about it. Let us see whether he can ride the rough waves out there !
“BN need to sacrifice those people to protect the interest of the political party.”
Maybe too high up to be sacrificed. Who is Selangor BN chief, is it PM? Is the “surat layang” true?
# Dr Pornthip tells court she is prepared to do 2nd autopsy even if have to exhume Teoh’s body.
# Dr Pornthip says will take longer time due to decomposition of body but that won’t affect her final analysis.
Source: Malaysian Insider twitter
———————————-
I hope Teoh’s wife and his family will consent to this suggestion by Dr Pornthip to enable her findings to be 100% conclusive.
Dr Khairul and Dr Prashant can attend the 2nd Autopsy too. Make it Mr Tan Hock Chuan and those lawyers representing MACC can attend too. Even better, the Coroner himself can also attend.
Hi Dr.
I have read your previous deduction and has concur with you on the findings. With the revelation from Dr PR, i shudder to think of what one our brave brother, TBH, has gone through under the MACC’s “care”. If there is a last straw that broke the camel’s back, its beyond argument that THIS IS IT!
To those that still supports BN/UNMO, how would you like to get sodomise and stranggled?
God saves Malaysia from the evil UNMO regime! Out with BN/UNMO in GE13!!!!
That’s right, get sodomised and strangled ‘during’ and ‘in’ the care and protection of public institutions of M’sia Boleh!
Shrilllllllll…..