1. The window at the MACC office on the 14th floor became the issue of contention during the inquest. The forensic expert says that the window is dusty but there were no prints on the window. The floor near the window is carpeted and is also dusty. Dr Khairul in his theory says that TBH committed suicide based on his findings at the window and the condition of the window.
2. Respectfully I have to disagree with Dr Khairul even though I do not have the access to the information and material that Dr Khairul had. Despite the minimal information initially and with the latest information that is being released via the inquest, I find that Dr Khairul suggestion that TBH may have commit suicide a little bit farfetched.
3. I believe Dr Khairul and I are on the same page with regards to the cause of death which is immediate death upon impact from a fall from height. The underlying cause would be massive and sudden blood loss in the chest cavity and the torn heart muscle. His own PM finding rules out the possibility of stroke or heart attack.
4. However I disagree with him on the manner TBH exited the window. From earlier discussion and inquest findings, it is quite certain now that the exited point is the window on the 14th floor where the broken latch and a matching thread from his pants was found.
5. Let us revisit what was said by CI Mazli Jusoh at the Inquest. Among others he said,” he found no visible signs of shoe prints on the window ledge or nearby walls” and “The window frame was dusted for fingerprints but the results were negative because the window was dirty and dusty,” The main crux of the police findings here is that there was dust at the window frames and it has not been disturbed. There were no markings on the window frames as if someone had touched it.
6. Based on Mazli Jusoh statement, it is quite probable that he did not climb out. If he did then, there would be marks on the window frames. It is almost impossible for someone of TBH height to climb out the window without holding to the frames. He is not that tall and has a body length of 174cm (5 feet and 8 inch).
7. Based on DSP Shahrul statement at the inquest where he said that he measured the window size which is 132cm in height and 82 cm in width. From the pictures on the internet, I measured the pixel points and estimated that the height of the window base from the floor is about 85cm. This rough measurement basically tells us that the window height is about 49% of Teoh body length.
8. It would be difficult for anyone of that size to climb out of the window without holding on to the side of the windows. The measurement ratio between the height of the window base from the floor and TBH height alone is conclusive enough that Dr Khairul theory that he had committed suicide is very weak and can be thrown out of the window.
9. Personally, I feel Deo has been an unfair to Dr Khairul. As a doctor, the most he can comment is the nature of the injury, its severity and postulated the cause and time of death. He probably can contribute to the mechanics of the injury. Obviously, he does not have all the pieces of the puzzle. It is a question should have been addressed to the I/O.
10. The absences of any disturbance of dust distribution on the window frames actually strengthen two important points. The first point is that he was either dead or was unconscious at the time he was exiting the window and the second is that there is a strong possibility that was lifted and thrown out of the window.
11. The basis of my argument on Para 10 is based on the fact that if TBH was lifted into the window, that there isn’t any need for anyone touch the frames of the window. Therefore there would be no disturbance in the dust marking on the window frames. This is consistent with what the police finding on the window frames.
12. At the same time, I am not sure how many people read the PM by Dr Khairul. My own observation is that there are a few findings that in my mind may not be associated with the fall. I will dwell more into this matter in the coming days. So far in my mind, based on the PM findings, the many pictures on the internet and the revelation at the inquest, I am more inclined to believe that TBH died while he was in the custody of MACC. I firmly believe that he was dead or unconscious when he exited the window.
Link to Inquest records at AG Chambers website
Disclaimer
The above writing is based on assessment of various images and writings on the mainstream media (MSM) as well as the online media. I am trying to understand the tragedy that took place at Plaza Masalam. It would be great if I have access to MACC office and location where the body was found but without such access, readers can expect some gross margin of error in my writing. Do let me know what the errors are so that we can come to a clear conclusion on what transpired.
Doc, looks like with the newly released information supported the theory that someone was involved directly to TBH’s death.
1. there is scratch marks on the area of his hand where he wore his watch.
2. his watch is not found, only his watch strap and a spring bar for fixing the strap to the watch were found.
According to Malik hypothesis, “Teoh was surrounded by individuals – a form of scare tactic – before he fell. When he fell someone grabbed his hand and snapped his wristwatch as the watch is yet to be found.”
Did Dr Khairul swap for DNA at the area of the scratch marks on his hand? Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. The lawyers should question him on this.
Raffick,
Did you work out the trajectory of the said “fall” through that window? To me, it seemed quite and absurd proposition that one could actually fall that far away.
Considering the possible momentum at which he must’ve hit the landing, I think he should’ve gone “splat” (my apologies for the expression) with plenty of blood splatter – did your pictures show sufficient splatter?
Wind action could affect the position in my opinion. When an object is moving fast, a weak wind action could already affect the position of the landing point.
Hi Dr,
This is very good analytical blog on TBH’s inquest. I too, follow the news everyday and see whether there is new findings, but to my dissapointment, it seemed they are circle around the cause and can’t wait to jump their conclusion to either ‘suicide’ or ‘accidentally fall’. They rule out the accidentally fall, which with all the finding are not convincing. So, they decide this would be a ‘suicide’. I think it is pre-determined already. They will no matter what, ‘suicide’ it’s the final answer for them.
I would like to write my thought after reading your blog. There are many unanswers questions & results. Why didn’t they looked at 15th floor, or the earlier mention, vacant floor? (I read the news earlier about there is a vacant floor which is closer to 5th floor.)
And, if TBH’s suicide, why is the body will dropped just right on the edge on 5th floor balcony? Won’t there be on ground floor? (I am not a expert, but just assumed.)
I will hope the truth will be out.
Dear Doc,
Another question ( sorry to just ask questions and not give any new insights to case ) , if gender or sex of the 2 ‘unknown’ DNA can be determine , what about ethnicity? This is definately helpful info, to narrow down suspects.
I have watched on ASTRO about a white guy in UK claiming to be 100% British and babbling racialist stuff just like some of our BN politicians. A geneticist took samples of his inner cheek lining and tested his DNA. He found this guy had roots in Middle east (Arab) and Africa. When told of the results the white guy was flabbergasted and threaten to sue the doctor.
I feel very strongly about this case. Gross injustice, if final verdict declared as ‘open’. Teoh Beng Hock RIP.
Whoever Khairul, Ahmad or Ali, they will make the same conclusion “TBH committed suicide” in the inquest. With this, there will be “evidence” TBH jump by himself. Their major purpose is not to find out the truth, but to ensure MACC name is cleared.
If there is no mark at the window, it’s mean TBH’s body never touch the window. So, there are only 2 posibilities:-
1) TBH open the window and jump out like superman as not to touch the window.
2) TBH is thrown out by more than 2 persons without tocuhing the window. And, Teoh is unconcious as no mark on the window.
Anywayhow, I have totally lost confidence to our government current practise, this case will end up ‘business as usual’……….
[...] Death at MACC: My CSI X: The window and Dr Khairul 1. The window at the MACC office on the 14th floor became the issue of contention during the inquest. The forensic [...] [...]
If only people have the integrity and honor to tell the truth. What kind of education did they get?!
Dear Doc,
I believe just like u that TBH died while still in MACC’s custody and he was flung out of the window between 1.00pm -1.30pm,
by two or more people. Please investigate a report in Malaysiakini on a reporter who was in MACC Building for a Press Con. and she saw that the main door of MACC which is always open during lunch hour close that faithful day.
Dear balasi
It appears that no one is interested in the closure of the MACC office at that time. This is an important issue…
Dear Doc,
U have the right people n connections with u, please pursue this to ur level best.
(SOURCE – MALAYSIAKINI)
“The window which was visited is widely theorised to be the window in which Teoh left the building before plunging to his death on the fifth floor landing.
It is located at a corridor near several interrogation rooms used by the Selangor office of the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC).
During this morning’s two-hour visit, coroner Azmil Muntapha Abas and the legal teams also viewed the visitors lounge, pantry, the sofa on which Teoh allegedly slept and the interrogation room where Teoh was questioned.
Following this, the coroner went to the fifteenth floor, also used as a MACC office where a ping-pong table was located.
When the team entered the 15th floor office, they were not allowed to visit individual rooms. ”
——————————————————————————————————————————————————
The whole issue here is the police classified this case as “sudden death”. Many evidence believed to be important not taken even though its said in the inquest that there’s about close to 100 items – “barang kes” but we dont know what it is.
- Tan Boon Hwa said he heard people playing ping-pong in the next room where he was interrogated that night. Meaning, he was interrogated at 15th floor.
- Teoh, was interrogated in 14th floor.
- Lee Wye Wing and another person was also said to be interrogated on the same night in MACC office but not sure if its 14th or 15th floor.
- Tan Boon Hwa meet Teoh (alive) at 14th floor pantry at 6am.
- A “high ranking” MACC officer saw Teoh (dead? alive?) on the couch at 6.10am. The officer left MACC building within minutes after that. The guard at the Plaza Masalam also mentioned that its unusual for the officer to be in the office so late.
- Why the inquest team was allowed to visit interrogation room on 14th floor but not 15th floor? Is it because it was a surprise request by the inquest team and MACC was not prepared to reveal certain things?
- Did the POLIS seize the electronic “door access” system from the MACC office ? All records will be in the “door access” system PC, the movements of all authorized card access holders will precisely recorded.
- How about cigarette butts ? since the polis have all the DNAs from MACC officers, they should have marked and tagged the location of all cigarette buts from inside, stairway, office and 5th floor corridor. This can simply show the presence of any person in any particular area. FORENSIC can also determine if its fresh or old cigarette butts.
- Metal piece found beside Teohs body is now confirmed as a wrist watch. High chances for it to stop at the time when body landed on the 5th floor corridor due to the impact. The pic is not clear but, my guess is 6.15, 3.30, 9.00, 11.45
But anyone can adjust the time and throw it down too to manipulate and also not necessary its time of death.
- What is the source of the unknown DNA found on TEOHs body? blood or something else ?
- The more dustier its more easier to find prints on any surface. But our “FORENSIK” is saying otherwise.
Dear Dr.,
Read your writings on TBH’s death. Interesting. Agree with your teory that TBH’s lifeless body was toss out of the window to make it look like suicide. After accidently killing him ,the panicky IO took some time to decide what to do with their ‘mistake’, by then rigor mortis had started. That probably explain the lack of blood flow , the clenched right fist and odd body posture i.e straight left leg and right angle to truck. Torn pants and snapped belt due to being caught by window latch on the way down.
A few questions,anyone can answer.
1. Is the MACC offices at 14th and 15th floor air-conditioned. Any opened window will be noticed.
2. Were the 3 ‘KDN’ officers tested for their DNA.
3. The pathologist requested by TBH’s brother, did he contribute any report or any input ?
4. “2 unknown male DNA on jacket and belt could be contamination from autopsy table” Is it possible such carelessness happening for any PM? Tak masuk akal !!
Only these 4 questions for now. Thanks and please continue with this CSI series. Good for right-thinking malaysians to be aware of the cover-up happening before our eyes.
Dear Foo,
Let me add another question….. the MACC office was found close when a reporter when to attend a Press Con. on that faithful day between 1.00pm – 1.30pm ( Malaysiakini), can they justify why it was closed…….or was it the time TBH was tossed out of the building.
Those who watch CSI on TV can compare the intelligence, ability and thoroughness of the CSI teams and this forensic pathologist from Malaysia.
Compared to them the Malaysian version is made up of idiots.
They do a shoddy job with the main aim of covering up murders, not finding the murderers. They miss the simplest of clues nor conduct mandatory tests in ‘evidence’.
I strongly believe that Teoh was either dead or unconscious in MAAC office and was thrown out of the 14th floor window. My reasons are:
1. The nature of his injury from PM result. If he was thrown out alive or committed suicide, there would be sign of other injuries like broken bones to hands, legs, and even neck, due to human natural struggling.
2. The windows frames and surrounding were “clean”, according I/O report.
3. My deduction: when they, I say they, means more than one (consistent with DNA test that 2 unidentified persons’ DNA were found), threw Teoh (who was dead or unconscious) our of the window, the back portion of his trousers were caught by the latch. The latch tore his trousers and broke. Also, from the picture, Teoh laid face down, which might indicate that he was thrown out facing the ground.
So, my conclusion is that Teoh was definitely dead or unconscious in the MAAC office at that time. The officers was panic and consulted their superiors. They decided to fake suicide and threw Teoh out of the windows.
Dear Dr. Rafick,
I have been following every piece of your write-up on the TBH case. My only hope is that at the end of the day, I would like to see you compile all that you have written and get it printed.
I believe in your theories and analysis of the probable causes of TBH death. Let us all wait the final outcome, and my guess is that the outcome will take us to nowhere.
If Teoh Beng Hock were to die before being thrown out of the window, then I must say, care would have been taken to make sure that no clear evidence is being left behind.
Certain evidence would have been erased whereas some other ‘evidence’ would have been planted. The idea here is to create confusion and make it difficult for the truth to be uncovered.
As such, there will not be any clear cut proof to show how Beng Hock died except to point to an open verdict as in the case of Rumie Azzan Malie, the Jabatan Alam Sekitar guy from Sarawak, who incidentally also fell to his death from a high-rise building for no apparent reason.
Dear Doc,
Chanced upon your blog and thank you for your civic-mindedness. Agree with you that macc bungled and the pm not involved, but, by his own admission, he wants S’gor state back and these lackeys are eager to please. The sad fact is they got carried away. Now they dig holes to cover the truth!
I think najib wants selangor as bad as anwar wants the country.. in that aspect both has aspirations and they are equal.
Dear Doc,
I agree with u….but DSAI is not that hard up. Anyway I Think PR started the game……and now would have to face BN’s game.
There are three possible conclusions from the inquest:
1) homicide
2) accident
3) suicide
no. 1 – very bad for MACC, a no-no.
no. 2 – very hard to explain. The floor was carpeted, the window was at waist height and why would Teoh open the window?
no. 3 – yes, that’s it. let’s call it a suicide!
If the fall caused his heart muscle to tear, can one still detect what happened to the heart prior to the fall? As in, could the torned heart muscle erase the, for instance, heart attack signs?
If he had heart attack, the ‘scar” of a heart attack would be there….
Dr Khairui is a forensic Pathologist (not just any Pathologist). So the should have an opinion on how TBH died. But his opinion is a white wash. Gobin had him cornered when he was questions on some basic forensic work. Note how Gobin opened his questioning remarks about his job title and functions and the difference between the ordinary pathologist and his title of forensic pathologist.
The “good” Dr can only says, “Yes, its good to know…” but did not carry out the basics of a good forensic investigation.
The conclusion: Either he is a really incompetent forensic pathologist (a really shame to the profession) or is trying to cover up for someone (of course under instructions from higher up).
I think he was accidentally murdered and thus the MACC morons panicked and threw the dead TBH out of the window. Suicide is utter nonsence. May the soul of all those who had a hand in his death rot in hell. I hate them!!!
actually, if someone had lifted him through the window, there must be prints of the bad guys, right?
did TBH fly through the 14th floor window? or some other window?
Not necessary so..
“actually, if someone had lifted him through the window, there must be prints of the bad guys, right?”
Two persons could have lifted him and chucked him out of the open window hence leaving no signs on the window frames. It would also account for the horizontal velocity.
The width of the window is 820mm or 33 inches. TBH’s height/length is about 69 inches.
I believed TBH was unconcious/dead during exit and his weight is 70 kg.
I find it hard to believe that he exitted from 14th floor window, when dust at 14th floor was said to be untouched.
He could have exitted from other floors??
Now MACC dont want to probe Politic related cases and their reason is as inferred from their statement ‘opposition disturbing their work’. What we want to see is fair treatment to all. Why they can interview Tiong at his office for hours but oppositions must go to MACC office???? Why action on oppostions is super fast when the RM500,000 allocation to BN selangor assemblymen spent within 2 months was not even investigated???? Dont MACC practice first-in-first-out???? What we want is fair treatment to all and all questioning should follow strict professional procedures,…like questioning during office hours, questioning to be recorded and all log books maintained up-todate.
unfair against the doc by deo cause the former does not have the full facts?
hey, then how can the doc infer that Teoh committed suicide?
really beats me. i dont trust him one bit as he seems to be biased with his testimony. a professional and impartial doc would have not inferred anything without substantial facts at hand. afterall, he was evasive when grilled by deo to provide substantiations.
I believe the good doctor has just made a fool out of himself for being used by the AG lawyers..
Strangely enough, these people claim to be Muslims.
I wonder how they go home to face their wives and educate their children on ethics and morality. And how they could pray 5 times a day.
As a muslim, I am so ashame of these people.
MACC had given PERAK TO BN , now the same operation in SELANGOR , MACC in the process to give selangor to BN . WHAT HAPPEN TO TEOH REALLY SAD. I THINK HE WAS MURDERED IN THE MACC OFFICE AND THROWN OUT. DR .KHAIRUL WAS SICK FOR SEVERAL DAYS , I THINK ON THAT DAYS MAY BE POLICE BRAINWASH HIM , SO HE CAME WITH SUICIDE THEORY .
hey, mate you should be an expert on the inquest.
Have to comment on this 2 points:
“6. Based on Mazli Jusoh statement, it is quite probable that he did not climb out. ”
and
“9. Personally, I feel Deo has been an unfair to Dr Khairul. As a doctor, the most he can comment is the nature of the injury, its severity and postulated the cause and time of death. He probably can contribute to the mechanics of the injury. Obviously, he does not have all the pieces of the puzzle. It is a question should have been addressed to the I/O.”
The Chinese newspaper gave a graphic description on how proactive & demonstrative Dr. Khairul was in putting across his speculation that TBH was able to climb out of the window.
[...] Courtesy Of Rights2Write [...]
If the truth cannot be found, I have to blame Teoh’s family for not delaying the funeral a few days for the Thai forensic expert to examine the body. They put their trust in the govt pathologist and the police. With the way the inquest is going, they must be regretting bitterly now.
However, a verdict of suicide is going to enrage the public and will not let MACC off the hook. What did they do to drive a would be husband and father to commit suicide if at all this is believed? If Dr. Khairul is smart, he will move away from this suicide hypothesis.
GAN
Suicide or homicide – MACC is fully responsible as they should ensure witness in their custody are protected and not at risk of being injured or killed!
As I said before, the MACC is responsible for him (Teoh) since he is in their custody. Unless they can prove that he has been released, they cannot escape responsibility.
Any finger print at the window/window frame could be cleaned by any cleaner who on duty that day, since TBH body were found 2nd of the day.
Not to mention, if TBH were pushed and drop by someone, he/she have enough time to “clean up” the scene and walk away(there were no record and some may ppl came in and out the building like hotel lobby).
Did anyone care to check the external side of the window? Anyone dust it to recover any print there?
Those who follow the CSI tv series might know that there were some thing that can be used to kill some one without trace! May be the “murder” learned it from there. Here is the clue: it’s not a toxic and it’s free for everyone to use it.
Even TBH was alive and he “jump off” the building by himself. Wait a minute here, to jump from 14floor, you need a lot of gut to do that. Once you open up the window, the external blow into the building will notice you and you might need to think twice or 3x? Thinking about the love one?
TBH flew through the window. That’s why there are no finger prints and footprints on the window ledge & frame lah.
Dr. Khairul’s speculation of suicide although prompted by Tan shows that he is biased and hence his findings may be compromised. Are any other injuries which may indicate that death was not caused by the fall but not highlighted by Dr. Khairul? The doctor has destroyed his credibility. Do you agree, dr rrafick?
I believe his credibility has been compromised.
So they whacked him in his body to crack the rib cage and burst his heart at the same time, all with his hands cuffed in front? That took TBH’s life early in the morning. The cuffs were removed after rigor mortis had set in to freeze his arms in that position (seen after the fall) before shoving his body with the arms and legs locked in the fetal pose out of that window? Otherwise how to justify the absence of severe upper body fractures apart from the rib cage after a fall more than big enough to crush the big bones in the legs?
Dear Yee Sing
The fracture rib cage and the torn heart muscle is most likely due to impact on the floor
Dear Dr
But it was reported that there was a large quantity of blood welled up in the chest cavity. This being the case, the victim was alive until the impact that tore up his heart? So he exited the window still alive?
“3. I believe Dr Khairul and I are on the same page with regards to the cause of death which is immediate death upon impact from a fall from height.”
drrafick, the above point does not mesh with your observation that Teoh was already dead when he exited the window. Would you care to explain?
Dear Kenny
1. You are observant… very good.
2. My position has always been that either he was unconscious or already dead at the time he exited the window. The probability is stronger towards dead. If he was unconscious, those buggers (who ever they may be) would not have thrown him out.
3. The post mortem report clearly showed that a very severe injury which could actually kill anyone. On this aspect, I am on the same page with him.
He could be unconscious but those “buggers”(actually a term used to describe homosexuals
) thought he was dead and panicked.
From the bruises in teoh’s butt I am more incline to accept the theory that he was unconscious and thrown out of the window.
Dear arteoh
I have to deleted your comments.
This is probably the first time I did it in my years of blogging.
Please comment professionally, I appreciate your cooperation.
Dear arteoh
I have to deleted your comments.
This is probably the first time I did it in my years of blogging.
Please comment professionally, I appreciate your cooperation.
Dear arteoh
I have to deleted your comments.
This is probably the first time I did it in my years of blogging.
Please comment professionally, I appreciate your cooperation.
Dear Doc,
I was just wandering…..if u could just act as a consultant to TBH’s family and cross examine all the witness. It would make a whole lot of difference.
Balasi
Thank you for the confidence. You are giving me too much credit.
I believe they have the right consultants on their side.
Dear Doc,
It’s just to prove that u as a Blogger can make a whole lot of difference to us bloggers. Take care Doc.
doc as I mentioned before, the 2 DNA people are not on the list. your theory that they could be from different office is good one. Now maybe they can ask for DNA from nearby MACC offices. or the cops or someone should do a check on the DNA list and match it with those MACC officers leaving the building that was captured on CCTV at the plaza.
also is there a back door that one can bail out without being seen by the CCTV? is there a log for visiting MACC officers or request slip for them to come over?
Rocky,
This whole investigation is a FARCE………believe me end of the day OPEN VERDICT- TBH commited SUICIDE.
Dear Doc,
I agree with you that TBH was dead when he was thrown out of the window and in theri haste to thrown him out, his trousers got entangled on the wondow latch which then broke when he fell. The lack of splattered blood tells a big story. I am only very, very sad that in a BN lead country where they can do no wrong, they will manipulate any evidence. They must win, they have to win, they will surely win unless another tsunami occurs. Just look at tyhe last DSAI sodomy trial. He was imprisoned even without Tivoli Villa and the accuser being medically examined. Everything else is irrelevant except what they say. And those who voted them into power all these years never saw this coming. The pro BN voters allowed them to become absolutely corrupted. As i said earlier, for BN it is a matter of life and death. They have to remain in power or see the noose!!!!!!!
Dear Lakshmi
I do not agree that this death is a political conspiracy. He is too small (politically) to be use in a conspiracy. I believe he died accidentally, the interrogating officer(s) panicked and they dispose the body via the window to make it look like suicide.
If he died ‘accidentally’ they do not have to throw him out of the window! An honest PM will prove it. The fact that tehy throw him out, if they actually did, is evidence enough to indicate they wish to deceive the public into believing it is suicide!
Dear Onlywchan
1. The PM in all probability is not involved in the death.
2. It is probably the job of one or two panicked officers in MACC
3. There are few good man in MACC. Not all are bad
Lakshmi/Onlywchan,
Agree with both of u……but what Doc said is true TBH is a small fry and also the MACC investigators were also small fries…PM not involved.
I believe the suicide conclusion made by dr.khairul was pre-arranged. What are the material facts that dispelled this theory ?
Dr R-Prearranged, that may be a to strong a word.. but fairly use to some extent
a. It was difficult for teoh to push himself backwards given that there were hardly any ledge for him to stand on. The horizontal velocity suggested a initial horizontal force.
b. His broken belt buckle and torn shirt on his right side suggested that he was lifted up from his belt buckle and right side of his shirt. This also suggested that the person who threw teoh out of the window was right handed.
c. The absence of smudges on the window sill meant he did not climb out himself.
d. The position of teoh’s body where he landed on his right thigh indicated a slight twist to teoh’s right side. This is consistent with the theory that he was thrown out. As the right hand has to throw a larger mass than the left hand it created a slight torque to teoh’s body.
e. The lack of defensive wound suggested that teoh was unconscious when he exited the window.
Dr R-I agree with you with regards to point a-e
—–
The torn heart muscles was caused by the tremendous compressive force. If such force could tear the heart muscles it could easily tear the pants.
Dr R-I agree with you with regards to the cause of the heart muscle tear but not the pants. The heart is located in a close cavity and hence the force on impact contribute to the tear. The same cannot be said about the pants.
—–
The lack of blood in falling from such height could be explained from the point of impact. If he had landed on his head or body the blood spill would be large. If he had landed on his legs or in this case his thigh bone much of the force had been absorbed by the breaking thigh and leg bones.
Dr R-There is some blood on the floor.The volume is small. From the picture on the internet, the pants were stained by blood in the buttock area. The post mortem report shows that there were multiple fracture on the thigh bone and hip bone.
“The heart is located in a close cavity and hence the force on impact contribute to the tear. The same cannot be said about the pants.” Dr.R
Tight pants doc
Maybe someone good in physics can explain better what I meant
As far as I know from experience the foreign pathologist, if not allowed on the stand, will pass on her observations to Teoh’s group of lawyers. She will tell them what to ask and debunk some of the finding of Dr Khairul.
Honestly, I don’t trust this Khairul fellow. I reckon he has done PM on many lock-up deaths and has never found the police culpable. He is a police frindly pathologist.
Many of these doctors always give finding favourable to the police.
Tell me, was there ever once the police were found culpable for the more than 1500 deaths in police custody?
We have murders covered up by police, doctors, AG chambers, judges and the government.
This people and their progeny will receive Divine retribution for this evil.
Sam
That issue is very much at the courts discretion
Sam01,
The Rakyat have just woken up from their sleep….take it easy,
time will come when what goes around comes around..
Doc, I seem to have missed the information that a matching thread from TBH’s pant was found at the window.
When I do a search, I only find this:
“Another witness, Saiful Fazamil Mohd Ali attached with the criminalistic section of the Forensic Department said he analysed a screw, window latch with three screws, metal clip, a watch and a connecting pin, a button with a white thread, a pants, which was covered with blood, a part of a doormat and a piece of paint.”
and this:
“He (Mazli) said he also did not find any fabric threads at the window frame on the 14th floor, where the Selangor headquarters of the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) is located.”
So I think you have received a wrong information.
Dear riglin
Kindly allow me sometime to clarify this point again and I will revert back to you
Dear Riglin
I reviewed the recordings of the inquest at AGC website and I agree with you. A mistake has been made i.e. that the fiber was not found at the window but rather at a button which had broken lose from the pants.
It is not clear where the button was found.
Thank you for highlighting this to me.
I think it was the two Thai forensic experts who found the fibres on the 5th floor of Plaza Masalam during their visit there.
“Personally, I feel Deo has been an unfair to Dr Khairul. As a doctor, the most he can comment is the nature of the injury, its severity and postulated the cause and time of death. He probably can contribute to the mechanics of the injury. Obviously, he does not have all the pieces of the puzzle. It is a question should have been addressed to the I/O.”
Dr. Rafick, I would agree with you that Dr. Khairul should comment on nature of injury and not the forensics and crime scene investigation of the case. However I have to disagree with you that Gobind Deo was the one who started it.
It was lawyer Tan from AG’s office who first asked the doctor if he thought Teoh’s death was accidental, based on his opinion formed after looking at Teoh’s injuries and visits to the scene of the incident. He then asked Khairul on the possibility of Teoh committing suicide. To this, Khairul agreed and said the “signs are more towards suicide”.
I strongly feel that the doctor was NOT in the position to form the suicide verdict as he did not undertake nor study all the forensic reports and other factors and circumstances.
Dear Justice
Thank you for pointing it out. Just realized it few moments ago as advice by Kok
The best answer Khairul should have given was probably that he cannot comment as he does not know enough.
Yes, I agreed. That would have been appropriate.
But then it dawn upon me that the whole thing could be a sandiwara or charade on the government side. All the while they wanted an ‘accidental fall’ or ‘suicide verdict’ (remember the Selangor CPO almost immediately announced that there was no foul play after the body was found). So lawyer Tan and Dr. Khairul could have ‘pakat’ or conspired before the hearing telling him the question that he’ll be asking and Dr. Khairul should point to a ‘suicide’ conclusion. Since Dr Khairul is the pathologist who did the PM, the public are expected to believe this BS. But the people rejects this blatant charade and will never rest until the truth is told.
Who asked Dr Khairul whether the deceased jumped or was pushed? I think it was the private lawyer acting for the A-Gs chambers. Gobind was cross-examining.
Hi Kok
After reviewing the inquest content, you are right. Gobind was cross examining..
The lack of blood being splattered strongly indicates that TBH was dead by the time he exited the window. Hence, no sign of struggle.
In the haste to dispose his body, one of BH’s shoes could have come off. The victim’s trousers then got entangled to the window latch. And as it broke, the victim fell – the weight of his body tearing his trousers. The shoe was later thrown down to make it look as though it is part of the suicide.
I have a strong feeling some of the evidence may have been tampered with. Therefore it makes it difficult for us to second quess exactly what happened the night BH died.
Hi Markky
I also think that he died before exiting the window.
Basis
(1) He did not jump on his own as evidenced by my writing
(2) There is no signs of struggle or anyone screams at the time of incident
Therefore there is one way only for him to go out through the window i.e. someone lifted him and trough him out.
p/s- there is 2 unidentified DNA which is also of concern.
Dear Markky,
I strong believe that there switch the shoes after he died….because I have seen in it before during accidents and u find these guys removing all sort of things before the police arrive and they just say a dead person don’t need all these.
Dear Doc,
Can Dr Khairul be charge for assuming all this and it turns out wrong and do the foreign pathlogist have a right to say their piece? Just wondering n frankly I’m just worked up.
Dear Balasi
(1) He is just giving his professional knowledge whether right or wrong
(2) On the foreign pathologist, I believe it is up to the courts to decide.
p/s- I might be wrong too! (as I dont have all the facts)
Dear Doc,
Dr Khairuls testimony does not make sense n all we want to know is the truth. Anyway I’m proud to be able to have excess to ur site n it doesn’t matter if ur not right. Thanks anyway Doc.