1. After the first two write ups and further reading and observation of the various statements by several individuals in the media, I believe the police findings may not vary very much with what I have wrote. The IGP press statement after meeting Najib at KLIA indicated that the investigation is almost complete and they are expected to submit their report to the AG Chambers very soon.
2. The conclusion of the last 2 days of internet research and photographic evaluation has led us to the following conclusion.
a) TBH died while he was in the MACC custody and it is quite certain that he had exited the MACC office via the window at the 14th floor. Chemistry department confirmation would merely be a formality.
b) The police has confirmed that TBH did not leave at 345 a.m. and TBH personal belongings like wallet, P1 hand phone and his backpack was still in the possession of MACC until it was given to the police 2 days later.
c) It was also reported that TBH died about 4-5 hours before he was found. I had disagree on this issue
d) Another DAP member by the name of Tan mentioned that he met TBH at the Pantry (or toilet) at about 6 am in the morning on the 16th July 2009
e) No definitive official statement has come out to indicate whether he had died before exiting the window or he died on impact.
3. I was kind of disturbed about the actual time TBH was last seen by Tan. I decided to place a few phone calls to establish the fact. From a reliable source that claims that has spoken to Tan personally, I was informed that Tan did not look at the time when he met TBH.
4. He asked TBH how the interrogation went through but TBH did not respond. He just made a humming sound which Tan could not make out its meaning. TBH was reported to be in a somber mood. What does that mean, I am not too sure. I guess someone who do not have enough sleep and has been awake the whole night was place under a lot of pressure, must not be in a very good mood.
5. I tried to piece the time Tan met TBH and according to my source, when Tan left a short while later the sun was brightly coming up. He had estimated the time based the sun. I checked the time for sunrise in Shah Alam for the last few days. The sun is up at about 549pm.
6. Assuming that by the time Tan came out from the building, it was about 549-555 a.m., I estimate that Tan saw TBH at about 530am. This means that TBH was indeed alive at 530am. This is about 8 hours before he was found dead.
7. If we go by the police pathologist estimate that he died about 5 hours before he was found, that would mean it is about be about 830 a.m. I had estimated that the time of death to be at least 6 hours which would lead to about before 730 a.m.
8. Based on the information that I have described, it appears that Tan died at about 600 a.m. At that time, in Shah Alam the sun is just coming up, children preparing to go to schools, guards would probably still snoozing and traffic volume on the road is small but building up slowly.
9. As I had theorized earlier, he died in the MACC office. His body was thrown out by one or maximum of two people out of the window to make it look like a suicide from the 9th floor but there is mounting evidence against suicide theory.
10. I believe the time of death has been narrowed down significantly. Now what we need to do is to established who was at the scene of the crime at the given time and date i.e. 600 a.m. on the 16 July 2009. I believe that the ACA officers in Shah Alam knows about it.
11. I am not sure whether it was true or not but I was informed a few minutes ago that actually Dato Mohd Shukri Abdul was not the head of MACC Shah Alam. He was the former head and now is the Investigation Director at Putrajaya. The Selangor MACC has no head past few months and the deputy was acting and taking instruction from Putrajaya.
12. Based on my source, it appears that he had received a call that morning from MACC HQ instructing him to make a press release. The text was not prepared by him. He was purely the messenger. It was reported that he had told DSAI that day when he went to MACC HQ for a fact finding mission. He claims that he is also not sure on what has transpired as he was only asked to give a press statement. I would not be surprised if officers are being posted in and out as this article is being written.
13. Based on what has transpired, it is quite clear that MACC officers knew about the death. The HQ in Putrajaya was informed much earlier than 130 p.m. and Dato Mohd Shukri was brought in to give his statements.
14. I search the internet to verify the time of the press conference was held but did not find anything. Can anyone help? If we know the time of the PC, we could work back words and estimate the movement of information between the MACC office in Shah Alam and its HQ in Putrajaya.
15. I am now more inclined to believe that the MACC officers in Shah Alam was trying to cover up the whole event. TBH died accidentally in the custody of MACC officers. They panicked and try to cover up by creating a suicide. Let see what Najib will say tomorrow about the Royal Commission.
in the earlier statements from MACC, they mentioned someone saw teoh napping on the sofa at 6am. That part has not been mentioned again since. Question is who saw him and on which sofa and in which room. That timeline is crucial to determine time of death.
Dear adsylim
I thought abt that but with the many incoming statement from the police and contradictions with MACC statements, I believe the so called napping on the sofa is the imagination of someone in MACC
Is it possible to make a search on TBH’s attire?? Because i believe if he was pushed down,then there must be some evidence left on the clothings that he wore………
I believe the police forensic should be looking at it
iS IT POSSIBLE TO MAKE SEARCH FOR FINGER PRINTS OR ANY OTHER ITEMS ON THE CLOTHINGS THAT TBH WORE?? IF HE WAS PUSHED,I BELIEVE THERE MUST BE SOME EVIDENCE LEFT ON HIM………..
Apologies. I mispelled the name of the Plaza.
Hi KB 12:58 pm
There are too many people in the Plaza Masalman area during lunch time. I know this Plaza quite well.
Hi KB 1:47 pm
I share the concerns expressed by Mr Batista 11:06 am
The police said the CCTV recording showed Teoh entered the building at 5pm but CCTV did not show Teoh going out.
I read the the MACC office doest not have CCTV. The CCTV mentioned was at Plaza Masalam buiding.
I rethink now.
We still don’t have sufficent info that Teoh exited from 14th floor. As one comment earlier by Batita, he could have exited from other floor within the Plaza Masalam buidling and not recorded by the CCTV. (I presumed the CCTV recording mentined is at the entrance at the lobby of Plaza Masalam).
Could Teoh be led to other floors thru the emergency staircase from the MACC office?
Is there an emergency staircase located in MACC office which is not at the lift area or main entrance of MACC?.
If Teoh was led thru other floors thru emergency stairs, any blood stain, foot print ?
Although police found a latch at the 5th floor, we are not sure, it come down with Teoh body or dropped down sometime ago?
Dear Dr
Is there conclusive evidence that the late Mr Teoh dropped from a higher floor?
A body can be moved from point A to point B in a body bag (or other form of disguise) and then uncovered for “discovery” later. Process can be undertaken when it is still dark. Why drop when this will create a loud noise and maybe attract attention?
Phua,
malaysiakini report says that police have recovered part of a window handle which matches a broken window handle at MACC office on 14th floor.
So it appears that Teoh’s body was in fact dropped from the 14th floor.
The fastest way to get rid of a body is to drop it esp. if they want to create the impression that he committed suicide. Why bother to disguise it and carry it all the way down?
Where is location of the pantry and the toilet? Usually toilet is located outside the office in a common area.
Dr Rafick, thanks for all your findings.
According to Mkini’s reporter, Mohd Shukri’s PM was held at 5pm.
Can you give me the link..
In your time line, you are confusing between sunrise and beginning of daylight (or morning civil twilight). Beginning of daylight is when the muslim perform their morning prayers. This is when the sun is about 8 degrees below the horizon and you can see a white thread of light along the horizon. for all intent and purpose it is still very dark till approximately 15-20 mins before sunrise.
Sunrise is when the sun is seen above the horizon. It normally take about 5mins for the sun to be fully above the horizon.
In our region the sunrise occur approximately between 70 -80 mins after beginning of daylight.
On that sad day the beginning of daylight was 0559 and sunrise was 0711.
Hope that helps
Dear Caine
You are absolutely right
549 was the begining of daylight. Tan said that he saw TBH in the pantry as he leave the building the sun was bright. That is why I came to the conclusion that Tan actually saw TBH before 600am because after 600 am Tan was outside the building.. Trust this clarifies
It should be able to determine the approximate time that Tan saw TBH the last time before Tan left the building. The time of Tan leaving the building should have been captured by the CCTV when he came out through the main door. Any mention of seeing TAN leaving the building on CCTV by the police?
No mention about any of Tan movement on CCTV so far
I think a medal should be given to the person who took the picture of TBH’s body on the roof. Because that picture tells a lot, eg; from the position of the body, no massive blood splatter, limb looks normal position, the torn pants, bruise on the palm . All this shows that he did not jump, because if he was alive and jumped, it would have been a messy scene on the roof. Just imagine if there is no picture, the amount of cover up by the culprit. Just a hunch, the TOD could be 6.00am as dr said ( because everyone is saying that the last time anyone say TBH was 6am , specially the macc guy).
Anyway, that is my un-csi observation but i do like to watch csi series.Good one dr, keep it coming.
This might help drrafick,
Rahmah explained that she first arrived at the MACC’s 14th floor office at 1:15 to attend a press conference to be given by assemblyman Lau Weng San. When other reporters arrived at 1:30, she followed them to the 14th floor again, but was surprised to find the outer timber door of the MACC office closed; it was then about 1:35. Thinking that the staff could have closed the door to go for lunch, she and other reporters went down for food. She then called Lau Weng San who expressed disbelief that the timber door was closed, as MACC was supposed to operate around the clock. Knowing that Lau was already on the way, she decided to skip lunch and went back to 14th floor, and found the timber door re-opened this time; the time was about 1:50. Lau arrived at 2 pm. After talking to reporters for about 20 minutes outside the MACC office, he went in to make a report. Of course, none of them knew that Teoh Beng Hock was already dead then.
http://mt.m2day.org/2008/content/view/24612/84/
1.30pm there were a press conference at MACC but not due to Teoh Beng Hock case…
surprisingly when there were a press conference done around 2pm why the MACC didn’t inform it to them… (something fishery happen here) but MACC pretend nothing happen since their DIRECTOR OF MACC confirm 130pm a witness scream and they confirm it was the body of TEOH…. who the person scream??? MACC people or somebody else??? the door of MACC closed at 130pm till somewhere around 1.50pm… it is the time when TEOH BODY was found… then why 2pm when assembly Lau reached for a press conference why nobody inform them.. WHY??? BELIEVE IT… THIS IS MALAYSIA…
Dear Thinker
This is an important clue. Why was the close at that time? Is it usually close during lunch hour or something was happening inside?
Anyone knows how I can reach rahmah
Dr Rafick, Please accept the gratitude of the larger group of concerned Malaysians for your dedication, perseverance and determination to seek the truth independently logically, scientifically and with compassion. I am sure your contribution will complement the Police work in far more very effective ways than can be fathomed at this point…..
My respect and very best wishes.
I am just doing fardu kifayah
Great job! I am impressed with the level of investigation. You’re doing a better job than journalists, police & MACC investigators combined!
I await Part IV.
“I search the internet to verify the time of the press conference was held but did not find anything. Can anyone help?”
The PC was held at 5pm, Thursday.
I quote, “He (Teoh) promised to return to us later in the day with documents that we had asked for. We do not know how he could have fallen or from which floor or where he had gone after 6am,” Shukri told a press conference in the MACC
headquarters at 5pm.”
http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=24622
the pc was not held at 5pm
Dr, thank you for your logical deductions even with limited access to direct informations. It just show that the police will be able to piece together all the facts and get to the ‘murderer(s)’ if they really do their work properly. We need to get to the bottom of this so there can be a full revamp on the MACC procedures for calling in witnesses. Same go for the police. This is for the good of the country!
I am old man. Retired. I have seen, in real life, people who commit suicide by jumping from high building. When the body drop on the floor, normally, it is either drop face down or drop on the back, with pool of blood.
In this case, as I seen it from the media, the body lied on the right side. It looks like the later TBH was in pain when he was in defence when he was attacked. Look at both his hands and legs. I never seen any dead body fall from high level in such a posture. I got the feeling that TBH was not fall from MACC office.
I been to Masalam buliding on several occasions. There is no lift goes direct from ground floor to upper floors. You have to go to 5th floor to take the lift. I got the feeling that TBH was asked to leave, accompanied by several MACC officers, brought out of MACC office, either walked down from the staircase, or took a lift, to the lowest floor where the lift stop, which is the 5th floor, brought him to the place where his body was found, torture him until he died.
If someone fall from a height, definately there is a pool of blood. Why no blood? If someone washed it away, why? Whose instruction to washed it away?
as for the finger-print of the glass window and the broken parts of the glass window, everybody know how it could happen.
As for the time of death, I think it should be between 7:00 a.m. and 7:30 a.m., the reason for this assumption is:
1) Tan claimed that he saw TBH at 6:00+/-a.m.
2) There are many residentials unit right at the back of Masalam building, those who working in KL or Putrajaya, started to leave their home, as early as 6:30 a.m., after sending their children to school, then straight to office. Remenber, 16th July, 2009 is Thursday, is a working day as well as schoolday, right?
3) A object weighted +/-140lbs/160lbs falls from a height of 140 feet high, there will definately very loud noise, nobody noticed? That is funny.
My assumption that TBH did not fall from MACC building. Someone( maybe more than one person) whacked at the crime scene.
I maybe wrong.
I agree with Batista, the posture of the body did not look like it fell from a height. This was also what struck me when I first looked at it.
But if rigor mortis had set in, his body may be in that unnatural position – the position he died fighting off his attackers. (thanks for the insight, batista).
As I’ve said, the body lying there for 7 hours without being noticed is very improbable.
My take is that Teoh was killed in the early hours of the morning, his body stashed away because his killers didn’t know what to do, then dropped from the 14th floor at about 1.30pm when the doors of MACC were inexplicably CLOSED.
It will only take a few seconds to drop and may have gone unnoticed esp. as it was lunch time. There is no way he can be carried there in daylight without anybody noticing.
Dear batista
1) The broken window latch and the torn pants was the key element that link to the fall.
2) There is not much blood on the slab roof because he was already dead when he went out of the window.
3) When someone dies, the heart stop pumping and within minutes blood start to coagulate. You can do a small experiment with a live chicken. Slaughter it and then wait ten minutes and see the blood in the chicken vein and artery. It clotted.
4) I believe 15 -20 mins went by between the time of death and the time of “fall”
drrafick,
we need to establish how “fresh” or how “old “is the broken latch. sometime we can determined if from the appearance.
if it is there is “old” appearance of the latch being dislodged from the window, then there is possibity Teoh did not exited from 14 floor as Batista trying to say.
I don’t believe in RCI anymore. So what if RCI finds MACC guilty. They found Lingam & co guilty too. Nothing happen to them. The brutal truth is that in 6 months time, all these will be swept under the carpet.
Another mystery, dr. raffick and a big one.
Why did it take until 1.30pm for someone to notice a body lying there in broad daylight? Say daylight at 6.30am it was lying there for 7 hours before anybody raised the alarm.
This doesn’t sound logical to me. Did nobody look out of the window of Plaza Masalam? How about the buildings nearby which overlook the Plaza?
Question: Was the body dropped there much later, say at lunch time when the offices would be mostly empty?
Dear KB
The only building that has a direct view of the 5th floor roof would be some of the hotel guest at Concord Shah Alam.
I hope to Allah someone DID see and record the incident and hopefully will have th utmost courage to spill the bean, Ameen
9. As I had theorized earlier, he died in the MACC office. His body was thrown out by one or maximum of two people out of the window to make it look like a suicide from the 9th floor but there is mounting evidence against suicide theory.
Why maximum 2 people? Can’t it be 3 or 4?
By the way, TBH was definitely thrown out of the window around 6 a.m. the most.
With all due respect I think the family should have allowed a 2nd autopsy despite their grief because that was the chance of exposing the truth. It would be even more painful now if they decide to lie and cover up in their version of autopsy report.
Dear Ah beng
I meant 1 or 2 people directly involved and probably carried the body to the window
Second autopsy would have been good
When and what was Beng Hock’s last meal? Were he being denied of any food throughtout the interrogation? We may have some important clues from this piece of information.
Dear Ka Seong
Good question. Pathologist can estimate the last time of meal and the kind of meal based on the analysis of stomach content.
The foreign forensic-pathologist to be engaged by Tan Sri Khalid Ibrahim is Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunan. However, she required one day notice before she can fly into KLIA.
But Teoh’s parents do not want to prolonged his funeral and we must respect that. Khunying Pornthip is one ‘kick-ass’ lady and she can make the dead talk to her. We just misssed the help of this remarkable lady.
For those who are interested to know more about her : http://absolutelybangkok.com/the-police-minder/#more-5208
pity… if not the mystery might be solve…. too bad
Dear thinker,
Maybe not. If a Royal Commission of Inquiry is formed, they can still seek Dr Pornthip help to go over the evidences and give her interpretation. Teoh’s parents must insist on that.
If you listen to the podcast on 22.30 to 22.34 timeline, she said;
“… maybe it’s the spirit of the dead that want me to help them…”
Questions:
1. if TBH was released at 0345, why he still wandering around in MACC office and Tan can see n even talk to him around 0600?
2. Or tan is lying here, he didnt see TBH n didnt talk to him at all ?
3. From the CCTV, we should be able to tell when Tan come out of the MACC office or plaza masalam? can we confirm that?
4. If tan did talk to TBH, y didnt he ask TBH to go together with him?
5. did PDRM seal the crime scene at D1?
Dear lai
Please read part I and II
First of all, Tan did not evade the police. He went outstation and when he returned, he attended Teoh’s funeral. He informed the police when he will come. He gave a statement to the police the earliest he could after getting a lawyer at 9.30pm on Mon.
Why was the police so eager to prematurely jump on Tan and say they will charge him for false report? Your guess is as good as mine.
Entrance/exit from MACC’s office is probably by security card. If this is the case, the ID of anybody entering and leaving is recorded.
From the way the police are handling this case, it does not inspire confidence. They took 3 days to seize the CCTV recording and handphone from MACC office and match the broken window handle. Do they know how much evidence can disappear in 3 days? Even the broken window handle could have been replaced. Thank God it wasn’t.
Few suspicious answer given by MACC director
Q1.How was the body discovered?
A1. Because someone was screaming downstairs. We don’t know who it was. (14floor can hear people scream from 5th floor but a body drop from 14th floor to 5 floor nobody heard… really pelik bin ajaib)
Q2.How was he questioned?
A2. We took his statements about 5pm on Wednesday and the session ended about 3.45am. He was allowed to go home, he was supposed to bring other documents to assist investigations later. (he allowed to go home??? HOW??? car key and handphone still under MACC custody… how can he go home.. why still under MACC means they haven’t release him yet… all is bluff story)
source:
http://www.mmail.com.my/content/8390-death-teoh-beng-hock-qa-federal-macc-director-investigations-datuk-mohd-shukri-abdul
drrafick,
i agrred with you too… teoh die during the custody of MACC and to push away their responsibilities they make him like committing suicide.
IF, indeed MACC is responsible, and for a better Malaysia that we all deserved:-
The Govt should bit the bitter bullet for once, ADMIT it and take the neccessary action.
If the police investigation reveal that MACC, transparent disclose it to the public the findings
I am sure if a Royal Commission of Inquiry (RCI) is established, the results should be the same.
Najib should agree to the establishment of RCI (to alleviate the EXISTING doubt of the public) whilst at the same time must convey the message that the police investigation is important.
Establishment of RCI even before the completion of the police investigation to me is not logical BUT in view of the public distrust and the outrage, it seems to be the only option now. Public must be aware of this!
If the findings of the police and RCI are consistent, then, the public will be able to rely the distrust against the police infuture.
Not all MACC or Police officers are bad , just like in any profession there are crooks, depending on the magnitude. We cannot abolish the MACC and the POLICE, they are important to us. We just “Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater”.
In addition to the govt admission, the Govt MUST take immediate corrective measure to review, correct and improve the operations of these enforcement agencies so that the wrongs and shortcomings are properly addressed.
The govt must take all the necessary measure to restore the confidence in the govt enforcememt agencies (MACC and police) in line with the aspiration on 1Malaysia and our wish to have a “just and fair” nation!!
CORECTION
If the findings of the police and RCI are consistent, then, the public will NOT be able to rely the distrust against the police in future.
Sure. There are good cops, and there are bad cops. But from what I can tell you, 1 over weighs the other, and there is nothing much the good ones can do.
If you were in their position, even the good cops will be forced to take bribes, and falsify reports.
If indeed good cops had a say, why is corruption so open in Malaysia?
That is why the need to have big change for a better country.
Teoh should not die in vain, he should be the nation’s inspirer to change for better humanity, just and fair nation.
The country have to start somewhere, and this is the right moment.
Hongkong is a good case for the reform in corruption.
Good work, Doc.
Information (as opposed to spins by the MSM) is what the people need. You are one of the providers.
Thank you so much.
Dr Rafick,
Continue with your CSI series. When we perceive there is an official attempt to cover up a cold blooded murder ( or is it an accidental culpable homicide) man with conscience can and should postulate.
God uses people like these to expose the EVIL designs of the mighty.
Do you think the killers can sleep in peace? Do you think evil will befall their children for the sins of their fathers?
There are two crimes here 1. murder 2. attempt to cover up the murder.
If it happenned at 8.30, surely those who come to work will hear the loud sound. MACC is a govt body and their clock in time is 8.30 rite?
Hmm…I think is 8.00 am.
Dr,
UMNO is an expert in burrying truth dan facts.Umno is not bothered at all about humanity, as they are more intrested in robbing this country dan it`s society.So it is very clear cut that the late TBH`s case will end up either as ” bunuh diri” or “dibunuh oleh mereka yang tidak dapat dikenalpasti” In this country UMNO does and is everything.They decide for all the institutions in this country.Do you sincerely expect truth to come out from the so call “investigation” on the TBH`s case.You see what happened to the KUGAN`sa clear cut case of murder by licensed Malaysian police? The other joke is that those guys involved directly or indirectly in Kugan`s case are investigating TBH`s case.Is fair to expect justice from these guys ?
Despite many criticism of the police force, I believe there is many good and honest people in force. Tan Sri Ismail Omar, the Deputy IGP is one honest person.
For your information he is one of our mosque committee members. I still have faith in the system (partially)
Give them some benefit of doubt. I believe, police will make some important announcement either today or tomorrow
Dr.,
Just two comments :
” A little knowledge is a dangerous thing ”
and
” Things are not always what they seem to
be…….. ”
Salam .
Totally agree with you. But is good to have facts-based discussion now, and always open and receptive to other possibilities…….not by the untrustworthy authorities, but by the ‘wihtout fear or favour’ type of Experts, if any.
Firdaus said ….” he was requested by the police to make a statement he refused.”
Tan did not refuse to give his statement. He was in fact looking for a lawyer to accompany him as he did not trust the police.(Who does, anyway?)
Tan stepped forward to speak up after a life was lost. We should admire him for that. Neither its fair to doubt his honesty. His story looks genuine as the sun rises in he east.
I remember watching a series that mentioned bruises on the corpses can tell stories and can come in two form ie fresh bruises and after-death bruises. For TBH case, if he indeed has died during interrogation and has been carried and shoved through the window, there must be obvious after-death-bruises on his body showing perhaps 3-5 days later after death. From the bruises, then we can ascertain whether anyone has actually carried him or maybe even dropped him on the floor while in the process of trying to shoved him through the window.
Early burial has hindered this work and perhaps a second post-mortem would really be more helpful with all due respect to the deceased and the family.
I am still so upset about what happened to Teoh. Like Mike, I had previously voted for BN; but now no more – ever again! I will make sure my family and friends are of the same mind.
para 7: “Shukri told a press conference in the MACC headquarters at 5pm.”
para 15: “Teoh’s death was confirmed only after Shukri called for a press conference at 5pm.”
may his soul rest in peace & let the hell breaks loose in MACC.
Hello Dr…
I live in Shah Alam, Syeksen 9. From my observation the sun is bright in the sky at 6:40AM onwards.
There is barely light visible before 6AM.
I believe it is only fair that you reveal your informants because there are some really strong conclusions that you made public based on the info.
Hi Guys,
You have done a good job. I think we should not specualte too much and give too much CSI opinions openly. You have did well with good intentions. I would suggest you keep your CSI private and give it to TEOH or DAP family to handle. All who wants to contribute can continue to do so, but through private email which you might collate. In this case, there will not be misleading info if you are wrong. If information are helpful and if there are real culprits involved, then they will not get information from here to cover their tracks. Continue to investigate and collect info and pass to the relevant people. Hope that Justice will be done !
Come on, they make a living from doing investigation works. It is naive to imagine they need ‘tips’ from total amateur/semi pro if any among us, to help them cover their ‘loose ends’.
Hi Dr,
Assuming TBH was killed at around 6 am in the office, what is your take about duration of time between the time being killed and the time being ‘dumped’?
Your assessment that TBH was dead before he dropped on 5 th floor at the very early hour while there wasn’t any human activity around is very sound and convincing.
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Dear Dr
1. Something is not logical here:
If the late Mr Teoh dropped from the building after the sun rose, it is surprising that no people in the surrounding area saw or heard anything.
2. As far as I can recall, last week in Shah Alam, it was still quite dark between 6:30 am and 6:45 am. But there would be a significant number of motor vehicles on the road already.
dear phua
that is why I estimated the time of incident is around 6am
Yeah I feel the morning sun starts around 6.45 am. But you mention 5.49 am. Why??
If the CCTV is really working, then we would be able to zero down who are the people entering the MACC office and who have left during the critical time when Teoh Beng Hock was supposedly died.
With the shortlisted people checks should be made to their mobile phone records to find whom they have called and from whom they have received calls.
I am a little suspicious about Tan’s statement if it was really true as he has made a police report earlier alleging harassment by MACC interrogators but when he was requested by the police to make a statement he refused. Later it was reported that he has recorded his statement. Just to make sure what he said is reliable and not carefully crafted.
Dear firdaus
I think you have scored a big one here. Certainly after a death there would be phone calls going back and forth between MACC officers and the HQ. It is good to know the names of officers that was around on that day, their movement bases on CCTV recording and their mobile numbers? Who can provide all this info?
The scumbags will not be hanged for the crime they had committed. The verdict will be NFA (No Further Action) even if there is a Royal Commission. Just like the Linggam Tape episode with Royal Commission but no further action. A Royal Commission is just to ease the public outrage and anger!
I’ve given my votes to BN since I started voting. It’ll be different from now onwards. Mike, my life mission will be the same as yours with my remaining life.
Of course Najib is the BOSS.
Who in the right mind dare to investigate Anwar, DAP politicians without Najib’s instruction.
Najib is UNMO Head of Selangor.
Instructions direct from Putrajaya.
MACC’s dirty tactics.
Not surprising at all!
Maybe ROSMAH????
2 wrongs don’t make a right.
If TBH accidentally died in MACC custody, then they should have owned up to it.
To restructure to look like a suicide is criminal.
Nice one Doc!
Mohd Shukri held the press conference at 5.00 pm. http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=35875&FORM=ZZNR7
Teoh’s talking on his phone. The MACC investigating officer perhaps, speaking to Ean. http://m.themalaysianinsider.com/articles_headlines.php?id=malaysia/32490-ean-yongs-political-secretary-dead-at-macc-hq-
Dear wudan
The two reference given did not indicate the time of the actual PC. I will call the reporter Charles Ramendran and Maria J. Dass who covered the news to establish the actual time the PC was held.
Alright Doc! Looking forward to more info. Cheers!
By 8:30 it is quite bz at the traffic light junction near Masalam building. Kinda funny if pedestrian gonig to work didn’t ‘hear’ or ‘saw’ anything during that time if TBH is ‘thrown’. Y did the doctor stated as 5 hours instead of 7 hours since u suggest he died at 6 probably? don’t tell they’re in it as well?
Dear mangchik
The doctor that did the PM have access to the body and other information which I dont have. They probably came to the conclusion based on rigor mortis signs on the body.
I base my timing by limited observation of pictures on the internet as well as what movement of people and information released by the police.
Tembelang dah pecah, and it stinks to heaven high.
Dr,
I truly hope the truth will be surfaced and the scumbags to be hung for the crime they had committed.
I voted for BN once when I was eligible to vote years ago and I will make it my life mission to vote against it with my remaining life!
Mike
MACC said TBH released @ 3.45am and supposed to come back with certain document for another round of “coffee la” at 8.00am.
TBH didn’t go home, tired and want a rest,so they took him to another room to rest on a sofa, very kind indeed our MACC officers.
6am, Tan said he saw TBH at pantry and asked him about the interrogations which TBH only gave a humming reply, (oh?no further conversations?just that?,surprising!).
6am, Tan saw TBH, what time did Tan come to MACC office? cctv showed Tan came early that morning? or Tan too didn’t go home! Why was Tan at MACC so early?
Ok, time TOD est. 8.30am to 9.30am, meaning the said appointment with MACC officer(s) at 8.00am was on.
So, my personal picture as I see it, (not saying it happens that way, but just to put in the jigsaw from some facts),when the “coffee” sessions began at 8.00am, the officer(s) must be very disappointed that TBH didn’t cooperated to bring in those documents etc needed thus anger and frustrations started to overtake their emotions, so verbal abuse and rough words started to come out from both sides!
So anger grew, physical actions takes place, shoving and hard pushing got more steam! No hitting or kicking, cos this is not any Tom or Harry!, so must be careful!
It must be during this heated physical action that TBH was push so hard backward against the window and alas!,either the window latch was not latched on properly or that the window was opened slightly to allow the cool fresh morning breeze in,TBH went out through it!!
In desperation, TBH tried to grab hold of the window frame not the glass pane, with his left at the left frame and right hand at the right frame, but the it just slipped away due to the force of the push and together with the pull of gravity! (we can see the blue black mark on his right palm and the blue black watch shaped mark on his left wrist, caused by his watch obstructed by the window frame when his grip was slipping off.
The torn at the back of his trouser was probably caused when the pant got caught by the window latch or hook when he felled backward against the window and down.
Though I see this as an unforeseen circumstantial accident, but if it really happened that way,there shouldn’t be any cover ups but just report the truth and be responsible for the negligence.
I personally don’t think the MACC would commit any killing with intention, perhaps being arrogant in their way, yes.
Nevertheless, an innocent life is gone, so justice must be done, the guilty must be charged, be it MURDER OR MANSLAUGHTER!! HAVE TO BE PAID!!