1. The following writing is done based on assessment of various images and writings on the mainstream media (MSM) as well as the online media. I am trying to understand the tragedy that took place at Plaza Masalam. It would be great if I have access to MACC office and location where the body was found but without such access, readers can expect some gross margin of error in my writing. Do let me know what the errors are so that we can come to a clear conclusion on what transpired.
2. It was reported that Teoh Beng Hock (TBH) was supposedly to register his marriage on the 16th July 2009 at the registrar of marriage. He was already married (via traditional marriage ceremony) and his wife is pregnant. Is there a problem at home that is so gravely torturing that would force TBH to take his own life? My reading so far showed that there is no grave problem at the home front.
3. He was at MACC office between the 15th (500 pm) and the 16th July 2009 (600am). The MACC office is at Plaza Masalam. He drove to the building. How is that no one heard anything or sound of a screaming man between 600 am to 130pm when his body was found. Plaza Masalam is a busy area. The Concorde hotel is next door. Many government offices are in that building and surprisingly no one heard anything? This raises several questions?
4. The first, could it be that he did not fall between 600 am to 130 pm on 16th July 2007 but much earlier than that? In other words he could have died while he was in MACC office itself. No documented evidence so far to indicate that he was heard screaming, could it be that at the exact moment he “fell from height”, he was actually unconscious?
5. Dato Mohd Shukri Abdul claims that there was no CCTV in the MACC office. This can be taken at face value.
6. However I have been to Plaza Masalam on several occasions visiting the Jabatan Ukur office which is located on the 17th floor. Based on my experience, I need to register at the guard post before entering the lift which is located on the 5th Floor (or 4th floor) and if I am not mistaken; the building management has a CCTV around the building? So far no one has come forward to explain about his official arrival and departure time based on evidence.
7. Based on pictures on the nut graph blog, it shows 3 ladies peeping out trough the small window on one of the floor of Plaza Masalam. The ladies are beautiful but on closer look, we can appreciate that the window opening is rather small. It would not be easy for anyone to climb out via such a small opening. The base of the window would be about 4 to 5 feet from the floor. It would not be easy for a small man like TBH to climb out unless he stands on something. The only other possibility is that he could have been lifted into the window. His small body could “scrape thorough” the window opening if push forcefully.
8. On Malaysiakini, there is a photo of TBH lying motionless on the roof of a building. Closer look at the pictures shows a few important clues. Among others, these include the dry blood from the body near the head area which seems to have drained towards where the policeman was standing.
9. The Forensic team can make an estimate the time of death based on the body and the condition of the blood. The small volume of blood certainly draws suspicion on whether he had died before the fall or upon impact. If he was alive at the point of impact, there would be large volume of blood on the floor (provided that there is no intrathoracic or intraabdominal bleeding) oozing from the open wound.
10. The second item of concern is that his body posture is lying on his right side. Why not face down? A man that is conscious at the time of his fall is most likely to fall on his face flat down or his back if he is being pushed through a window. If he had jumped I would expect that he would have ended leg first. The pictures are not conclusive enough to indicate any lower limb fractures. Post mortem would be able to shed some light.
11. The third item being is his torn pants at the buttock area. Why is torn? It appears as if the pants were hooked to something at the time of fall and that is why it is torn in such a manner. A fall per se unlikely to cause this kind of damage on his clothing?
12. Could it have been hooked on the window lock at the base of the window? Looking at those gruesome photos suggest that someone (or two) lifted his unconscious body and tried to push through the windows and this is when the pants could have hooked up on the window locked.
13. The forth item are the 3 pieces of bricks that lies to the side of TBH. It is not certain if the bricks were there coincidently or it is related to the incident. Are there such similar bricks in the MACC office being used as a base of a flower pots or for other purpose? This can only be answered by the police in their course of their investigations.
14. Without the floor plan of the MACC building and the location of the body, it is hard to determine the trajectory of the fall. The press has been quick to point to the fact that he had fell from the 14th floor. I am not sure on what basis they had come to this conclusion.
15. If he fell through one of the windows, there are bound to be tell-tale signs of signs at the windows and on the side of the building. The options on the possible causes of the incident are rather limited and suicide is the weakest possibility among all.
16. We have to wait for the outcome of the police investigations. Sadly, the public perception on the RMP is at the esteem low in 2009. The public has already an expectation on the outcome of the incident and if the police cannot provide adequate evidence to support any of their theories, my gut feeling tells me that the people will not be satisfied and the police will continue to lose the confidence of the public. The image of the RMP will go down further.
17. The possibility of TBH died during interrogation cannot be ruled out. Based on the limited information, there are signs that suggest that he might have died during custody and his body was disposed via a fall. More evidence will surface soon, I am confident that those that is involved will be caught and punished.
Hi guys,
1 Malaysian ????? Great !!!!!!
1 Malaysian will die for others evil deeds
1 Malaysian will go to jail for other corruption
1 Malaysian will confuse for other greed
1 Malaysia will have to agree what “they” say
1 choice yes or die as 1 Malaysian
Take it or leave it 1 Malaysian 1 choice 1 trail
1 Malaysian choice” ISA”
Malaysia sure can Malaysia boleh
[...] MACC death tragedy – My untrained CSI techniques [...]
Dr Rafick
Very good write up and so informative. Keep it up.
JW, you are right, assuming that he commited suicide, Teoh being small in size would definitely need to hold on to the window frame or panel before he jumped. Are there any finger prints on these elements. Otherwise, the police should stop wasting their time and strike off the possibility that Teoh committed suicide and don’t dilly-dally and start to hunt down the real culprit. Underworld and MACC, are they the same people???
[...] Part I [...]
“Satu serpihan selak penutup tingkap pejabat SPRM itu, di Plaza Masalam di Shah Alam, turut ditemui dekat tempat mayat ditemui, kata Datuk Khalid Abu Bakar hari ini.”
1. serpihan tersebut dipegang oleh mangsa atau ‘terlekat’ pada pakaiannya.
2. serpihan selak tersebut akan melantun jauh sekiranya ia jatuh berasingan.
my 2 sens
The Plaza Masalam area is a very busy place with govt. departments, shops, etc and close to Giant, Concorde etc. I used to work in that area. If the body was dropped at 1.30pm, definitely there will be a loud thud.
And you are right doc, what must be investigated are all the phone calls made by MACC officials at Plaza Masalam to their bosses at MACC HQ in Putrajaya between 6.00am and 2.00pm, the volume of these calls, to whom specifically these calls were made and possibly contents of sms etc…
Good analysis and discussions here — I would like to consolidate all 3 parts to date at my Blog tomorrow …hope it’s OK with you (as I was too busy and heavy hearted with a fellow BUMmer Ancient Mariner’s passing away at about same period to really enage in more “sad” reviews…YL, Desi
my pleasure.. no problem
compare the heights of the window to TBH’s height. If the height of the window is way above his body center of mass (near the belly), then it would be very unlikely that he tripped and fell.
cross check this with any hazardous item on that floor that could cause a trip. if the height of the window is indeed very high (from the pic it does seem so), then TBH must have tripped over something that could send him in the air for him to ‘fall-over’. This is almost impossible given that the crevice from the window is small. Besides the glass would have been broken.
About the blood. I think we shouldn’t speculate too much about it. Biology is a very complex thingy. Much more complex than physics. I’ve only know how blood sputters from movies, never from real life. But my take is, unless you got a puncture from one of your main veins, it is unlikely there’ll be huge splattering. But we should only try to say what we are sure, there’s enough speculation already.
So what i’m sure is that if the height of the window is higher than TBH’s center of mass, it is almost definitely not a suicide. This would narrow it down tremendously, considering that there’s not many ppl in that buillding at that time on 14th floor.
suicide is already excluded
[...] http://rights2write.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/macc-death-tragedy-–-my-untrained-csi-techniques/ [...]
great effort put in.impressed,,thanks
[...] MACC death tragedy – My untrained CSI techniques 1. The following writing is done based on assessment of various images and writings on the mainstream media (MSM) as [...] [...]
[...] by drrafick 1. After the release of the first part of my investigative findings on TBH death which is based on the information in public the domain, it appears that what I have [...]
ANOTHER OPERASI LALANG IN THE MAKING
WATCH OUT GUYS KEEP YOUR HEADS LOW
TAKE COVER
BIG SWEEP ON ITS WAY……….SOON
Dr raffick please ensure blog is not blocked or suspended
MT English site is kaput !
THOSE GUYS ARE CLOSING IN FAST AND FURIOUS….
folks go watch MT- RPK – the movie “MACC down fall parody !”
do not miss it
best ever movie made locally !
AN INVESTIGATIVE OFFICER “THE PERSON IN CHARGE TO INVESTIGATE AND SEEK THE ANSWERS!”
THE PROCEDURE TO QUESTION AND ITS TECHNIQUE !
SLOWLY AND NICELY…
COAXING AND PLEADING…
NOT WORKING —TAKE A BREAK……
CONTINUE ANOTHER ROUND……
SAME QUESTIONS……STILL NO ANSWER….
TEMPERATURES RISING…LOUDER VOICES SAME QUESTIONS……
STILL NO ANSWERS…WHICH SATISFY THE QUESTIONS…
HARD NUT TO CRACK……TRY USING THREATS…..VERBALLY….
STILL NOT CO-OPERATING…..
WELL GIVE A SLIGHT NUDGE……SMALL SLAPS…..
VERY TOUGH NUT IT SEEMS……
GO ON SOME MORE HARDER SLAPS…….!
STILL NOT RESPONDING……..
OKAY SMOKE BREAK AND PLAN NEXT ROUND…..
SAME QUESTIONS…SAME ROUTINE…..BARGAIN….
NO RESPONSE STILL……
OKAY LAH WE BEAT U UP IF YOU DON’T TALK…OR ADMIT TO WHAT WE SAY……. YOU MUST SAY WHAT WE WANT YOU TO SAY…!
NEVER MIND SO YOU SURE YOU ARE TOUGH!! ???
VOICES BECOMING LOUDER AND ANGRY FACES BECOMING ANGRIER !
AFTER HOURS OF INTENSE QUESTIONING THE HUMAN MIND BECOMES NUMB AND TIRED….
THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ARE ALSO HUMANS THEY GET EXHAUSTED & TIRED TOO! THEY DRINK LOADS OF COFFEE….DRINK COFFEE & SMOKE TONS OF CIGARETTES ……..KERETEK !
AFTER SOME TIME BOTH PARTIES BECOME VARY….THE MIND BECOMES CONFUSED…..THEN THE DEVIL/SATAN COMES INTO PLAY………HE WHISPERS EVIL THINGS…EVIL INDEED….SHOW THIS BLOKE WHO IS THE BOSS, THE REAL BOSSS………….!
THEY WE GO THE END IS SO SIMPLE…………!
Trying to write a script before a movie is made is a very simple matter indeed, that is, if one is a good and experienced script writer !
BUT TO WRITE A SCRIPT AFTER THE MOVIE IS SHOT AND SCREENED!
THAT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE!
This is a very very tragic event.
Pending the release of the investigation, I pray all parties refraining from blame, inciting hatreds. for hatred and invite hatred.
We must control our emotion and be patient and careful of words express out of anger and wait for the outcome, only then there is basis query and take the follow-up actions.
In view of the unfavorable perception of MACC, it is imperative to have a Royal Commission of Inquiry.
Don’t worry, everyone will be responsible for the outcome/results for the deeds or evils performed. This is natural law.
Dear Lee
I agree with your views. Thank you being sober!
Name me one single concrete outcome of a Royal Ccommssion? The RCI is a waste of time and money – I will bet my last dollar that nothing will come of it.
Malaysia is slowly and surely turning into a very sick place. We must finish off Umno and its cronies to cure the country from this acute sickness.
Dear Aston
Please control your emotion and let us argue our case professionally.
Malaysians are very naive.
It is pretty clear that the MACC is operating like the German or Soviet secret police of the ruling party to punish opposition members.
How more transparent can they get? We must be all completely idiots to even discuss MACC.
Something like the MACC has to be completely independent or not in existence at all.
This is truly outrageous, as would be the case if the Mafia ran the police force.
Barisan Nasional must be made to pay for their shameless and diabolic behaviour. They and only they are responsible for the death of the young Teoh Beng Hock.
Why is MACC only investigating non-BN politicians who legitimately took political control of the state government from BN?
Why is MACC not investigating any of the BN politicians against whom reports have been lodged?
It seems obvious that the MACC and police are all lackeys and running dogs of the BN government, jumping to at their every beck and call.
They have no self respect, no sense of right or wrong and I am ashamed and disgusted to be called Malaysian.
The blame lies on all of us for voting the BN, for not being able to form a cohesive and united group to wrest power from the egotistic BN mob.
Despite what they have been saying about the British, they left us a good legacy, with decent laws and a democratic system.
The BN slowly but surely whittled away at the foundations of our nation and brought us down to this lowest of low point in Malaysia history.
It is time for the opposition to unite under a single banner without reference to race or religion and take on the multi faceted and splintered BN.
Anwar, Zaid, Karpal, Lim and the rest, this is a wake up call.
Think like you are the next government. Be prepared with a list of pledges that you will introduce if you get the opportunity to form the next government.
Put the country and its people first and let your personal party politics take a back seat for a change.
In the process, the window handle could be dislodged, and teoh pants could be torn by the latch, his hand could be cut againt the window frames.
————————————————————–
Dear Lee, maybe Teoh’s right hand was gripping the window handle for his dear life. I hoped that he was dead when he ‘fell’ than ……..
The mystery fall unravel;
Selangor police chief Khalid Abu Bakar today said that police revisited the site where Teoh Beng Hock died and found window components believed to have come from the 14th floor, occupied by the MACC, next to his body.
It was previously speculated that Teoh had fallen from the 9th floor, said to be unoccupied.
The 9th floor had all window intact, apparently.
“We were checking the 14th floor window because we found COMPONENTS of a window on the 5th floor. We will take a closer look at the window. We suspect it is the WINDOW HANDLE,” he said.
Source:http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/108885
drrafick,
Can we conclude that Teoh fell off the window of MACC office on the 14th Floor now.
[...] apa yang you guna-pakai? Wah macam ni kalu…CSI Malaysia nipun pening…rights2write MACC death tragedy – My untrained CSI techniques …Selamat [...]
The fact is TBH died in the custody of MACC or rather in their premises.
They have to provide the answer.
The death is tragic indeed.
Let not cause more death by rioting, hatred, insinuating, murdering etc etc etc.
I protest to the death.
I protest to the street protest too…..
To MACC head …. Please resign
To PDRM head ….. Please do not extent your unwelcome stay.
These will ease the investigation.
These will sooth our sorrow.
I am a Malay. TBH is Chinese.
Both of us are Malaysian and in need of protection.
So does every Malaysian.
TBH death is uncalled for.
My condollence to TBH family and all Malaysian.
Dear amirruddin
I concur with your views
(1) The fact that death occurs while he was in custody of MACC is good enough for action to be taken against the head and the Investigating Officers. Immediate suspension with appropriate punishment and removal from service is waranted.
(2) Today it can be TBH, tomorrow it can Ali, Ah keong and Ramasamy. Ali could your family members. Your stand earn my respect.
I had heard many suicide tragedies from dailies before but yet to see one with torn pants like that. If his pants were caught by the latch, he would have been taking a very uncomfortable and odd position for a jump. The tear can only be in the direction of towards the legs.
I would imagine, if someone were to take his life and voluntorily, he would look for some kind of ‘platform’ and probably linger for a while before any action. In most cases, someone will noticed, as reported in all suicide tragedies in public places.
Hi william
The window is too high too climb as well as too difficult to sit there as the openining is rather thight. His pants definitely got stuck at the window latch but who carried him to the window. Was there any sign of struggle?
It could be he has been dead in MACC office after torture, etc. And to avoide the body remain in MACC, they (MACC people) throw the dead body thru the window. In the process, the window handle could be dislodged, and teoh pants could be torn by the latch, his hand could be cut againt the window frames.
For the underground society to move to level 14, is not easy, look at the access door at MACC office , you think the mafia can dare and easily roam into MACC office macam mamak stall!
God surely know who the culprit/s involved.
I dont believe Teoh committed suicide. He has left Ean Yong, and if he is worry of divulging info of mafia to MACC, dont you think Teoh will get assurance from MACC to ensure safety.
Maybe MACC not able to extract info from Teoh or Teoh did not admit incorrect statemnt force upon Teoh, that result in the torture.
Dear Lee
Your thinking are in tune with my own thoughts.
This outside element coming into MACC office can only happen if there is inside help.
There are shops at the side of plaza masalam. Food stalls and coffee shops. So if anytime after 7.00 am a body were to fell down from the 14th fl it will sure be notice by someone at the shops or the stalls having morning breakfast. Further more if a body were to fell down fr 14th floor, how can it be so nicely miss the parapet wall and the head miss hitting the wall, the body neatly hiding partly underneath it????? Was RIP Teoh suppose to be back to continue interrogation at 8.00am with more documents?? Why when he did not turn up at 8am no swat team out to arrest him. How come the officer become so patience as to wait until 1.30 pm. (Theory is they knew he is not coming back because they placed the body there and pretend nothing happens until someone finds the body at 1.30pm)
Dear TBOH
Your thoughts were basically that he already died and placed there by MACC officers
This could easily be discredited based on the nature of injury that he had sustained.
It is uncertain that his body had missed the wall at this stage. I have not found any conclusive evidence to say that such thing happenend.
What would be your argument on the torn pants and blood around the right hip area based on photos on internet?
My theory is that he had died during interogation and his body was thrown out the window by the panicking MACC officers. Possibily 1 or maximum 2 MACC officers involved.
The blood stain and the torn pant could have happened due to some struggled during interrogation and it gets to rough and he was accidentally kill. .Any brave young man will definitely fight back if he fills that he is innocent and will never be allowed to be humiliated. If the head were to hit the wall there will sure be badly smashed and blood stain on the wall which is too close to miss. Anyway the truth will never be known, unless miracles happens.
Let’s say that speculation on the Triads having a hand to Teoh’s death has basis , Teoh did not commit suicide and MACC employee(s) did not throw Teoh out of the window.
Surely MACC must have allowed outsiders into the secured MACC office. Most likely that someone within the MACC has a hand on the incident.
This is possible as I am in the opinion that the Triads control this government on proxy. Politicians want to stay in power , so is the PDRM, MACC and Judiciary all wanting easy money. The source of funds are black money and this is the power of evil.
Dear AK
That is also a theory worth exploring..
Teoh’s phone and estimated time of death.
Selangor police chief Datuk Khalid Abu Bakar confirmed today that Teoh Beng Hock’s mobile phone was in the possession of An Anti-Corruption Investigating Officer, leading to questions about whether the dead DAP activist had been “released” as claimed by the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC).
Khalid said today that according to a post-mortem, Teoh died between four and five hours before his body was found at 1.30pm on Thursday.
Source : http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/32802-mobile-phone-and-other-posers-for-investigators-in-teohs-case
Dear Wudan
My estimate as written below is about 6 hours. If Dato Khalid says it is 4-5 hours it means that I am not too far off. I would still stick to my min 6 hours. His body was found at 130pm. He was last seen at 600am. That is 7 hours and 30 mins in between his body was found. Going by the blood stained condition, I would say 6 hours is about right.
There is a need to verify the fact that he was seen at 600am. To many contradicting statement about this. Some say a fellow party member saw him at 600am at the toilet and other says that he was seen at the pantry.
Two further observation point that I must highlight:
a. The door at MACC HQ based on the image on Malaysian Insider shows that it is a tight security door. The entrance is right outside the lift lobby.
b. If Dato Shukri says that he was released at 345am, then
(1) Why is that MACC still keeps his Handphone
(2) What is the probability that he had exited the door which probably need someone from MACC to open.
c. The windows of concern is inside MACC office and it is not at the lift lobby area. This means that he was still inside the office. He was not released at 345am. He was still in custody prior to the time of death.
d. What we need now is the floor plan of MACC office in order to understand the location of the said window and in relation to which part of MACC room. Is the window is in the interogation room?
Readers with good solid and undisputable info are welcome to contribute. Let us solve this crime together.
Conclusion so far
(1) Suicide theory is the lowest in the list. It is almost extreme impossible.
(2) There is a strong probability that he died in the MACC office.
Another councillor Mr Tan saw Teoh at the pantry at @ 6am.
So the incident; whether Teoh jumped or was pushed or his body was thrown could only have happened anytime between 6am to 1.30pm , the time when Teoh’s body was found.
Dear AK
Looking at the blood in the photo, I would say it has been at least 6 hours..Anyway photos are misleading..
Dr. Rafick,
A very good analysis and interesting discussion. However I have to disagree when you said that you are confident that those involved will be caught and punished. This may be true in any real democratic country but this is Malaysia where crimes without criminals are common esp. where politics is involved. Frankly I do not share your confidence.
Dear Ken
Do give the police a “very small benefit of doubt”
Look at MACC office main entrance and the size of that ‘DOOR’ (http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/32755-cops-return-to-scene-of-teohs-death-)
From Azhar’s comment , “…most importantly, the papers revealed that the premises of the macc was electronically locked down and that all access into and OUT of the premises had to be escorted by an macc personnel”.
If it is established that Teoh fell from the 14th Floor i.e. MACC office then Teoh was still inside the MACC office at all material times and MACC should be RESPONSIBLE.
“We” release him at 3.45am, last seen at 6am and we don’t know what happened to him is not what the Rakyat want to hear
Hi Dr,
Teoh was seen at 6 am. My guess is that the interrogation did not stop at 3.45 am as claimed. Teoh was probably given time to ‘think over’, hence he being there supposedly in the pantry sleeping it off. The interrogation would have continued after six and your theory takes over. My guess is that “he would have been thrown out” at about 8.00 am. Not many people would have been in the building then. I wonder if any motorist noticed a body plunging down from the building.
Hi Dr Rafick,
Good analysis, assuming Teoh’s body drops from 14th floor, and at 3 metres per floor, total height is 27 metres.
At the point of impact, at a gravitational acceleration of 9.81 m/s2, its velocity is 23 metres per second ( i.e 82.8 per hour speed).
Assuming body mass of 60 kg of the deceased, its kinetic energy at point of impact is 15892 joules.
What’s your take on this, in relations to photos show above??
Hi Graduate
Good point. I am not good at physics. In my mind G speed is 10m/s.. I guess yours is more accurate. Going by your description it is like having a MVA at 80km/hr. The result of the impact would very much depend on the way the body landed on the roof. Obviously it is not head first as then it would be in pieces. I think he landed on his side and the possibility of internal chest and liver bleeding is very high.
I am not too sure about MACC itself but a slight correction. You DONT have to register to enter Plaza Masalam. That guard ‘table’ is at the 4th floor and is for show, people freely walk to the lifts to go whereever.
I know becoz the IC dept is on 6th floor i think and u just walk past.
MACC itself maybe you need some kind of pass to enter.
What about finger prints?
This is quite a first isn’t it – an agency that involves holds high security, “sensitive” information, conducts interrogation and holds “witnesses, doesn’t have CCTV?
Thank God PRDM didn’t say that he died of “cardiac arrest” eh?
Yes too many oddities surrounding the death of the late Mr Teoh. I pray that truth will prevail and that Teoh did not die in vain .
May God grant him eternal rest .
Prayerful condolence to his family .
It will be covering the sky with a palm of one’s hand if the MACC, POLICE and UMNO decide to cover up this case.
They will be stripped naked and the repercussions will be tremendous and disastrous for the government.
It will be wise and save our time if the culprits or those in the know to step forward with a confession. I presume there is at least one person in MACC with a conscience.
Someone above said about desecrating a dead body.
Well, through my experience, many police and macc personnel, care a damn about the living. What more of the dead.
They fear no God, they can be ruthless, merciless and heartless.
They think it is impossible to elicit information from a person unless they resort to cruelty, duress and torture.
Hundreds have died in police custody and the government did not nothing to stop it. They have this 007 licence to kill with a ISO 2001 to boot.
Zoom in on the same picture, notice the deep triangular cut on Teoh’s right palm. His right hand looked bruised.
13. The forth item are the 3 pieces of bricks that lies to the side of TBH.
———————————————————————
The bricks are not at the spot originally. Here:http://shambatutiga.blogspot.com/2009/07/esok-nak-kawin-hari-ini-bunuh-diri.html. The forensic police brought them and used them as ‘paper weight’ when they covered Teoh’s body with the black vinly sheet.
Wudan
Thanks for the reference photos.
With your explanation, we can exclude the the bricks from the crime scene. A good look of the photo on the same photo showed that his shoe came off and there is a big wound at the Rt. buttock. Some blood also noted here. The right leg appears to be twisted which possibly indicates a fracture/dislocation of the hip.
Jed,
Bagus la law class yang ko masuk…. bleh jadi CSI pulak… no offence…
Dr Rafick,
kes ni pelik sangat… belum ada siasatan lagi dah bagi conclusion “sudden Death”… Ni macam doktor yang hanya bagi paracetamol untuk segala jenis penyakit…. hahahaha…
Even if the macc had no respect for the person when he was alive, they should have the miniscule compassion to show him the proper respect when he was dead. The conduct of the macc from the start of the event, ie, their interrogation methods just shows their lack of skill & knowledge to handle their responsibility. Making threats & nasty comments on a persons religion & ethnicity just shows their own stupidity and shallowness.
To heave a dead body out the window to be rid of guilt is totally unacceptable. Even in the most difficult conditions, a soldier always shows a downed or halpless enemy some form of compassion and respect. The dead are never desecrated as this is against every teaching of civilizations and religions especially ISLAM.
More facts were released in the chinese language papers today, the fact that on the day of his death, his family found his car shackled in the car park, and when they came to claim the vehicle later, they were told that the polis have removed it. It was also mentioned that his handphone was never recovered and most importantly, the papers revealed that the premises of the macc was electronically locked down and that all access into and OUT of the premises had to be escorted by an macc personnel. That would mean that the macc chief has been caught lying through his teeth when he claimed that the deceased was released at 3.45am.
The mainstream press reports on the other hand are bordering on inciting racial hatred as far as I am concerned.
As far as I am concerned, the macc has yet again proven to be a failure, it has failed to pursue and significant corruption cases, failed to bring any such cases to court, failed to get any conviction of earlier cases (perwaja comes to mind), and today has failed miserable in the eyes of the general public. I think funding for this agency ought to be stopped.
And personally, I would like to drive a bayonet into the belly of the persons responsible for the shaming of the entire nation in the eyes of the world. This person is a traitor to the nation and deserve nothing else.
wow…i got so many info visiting this site regarding the death of Toeh..hmmm.. like every1 said it wasnt a coincidence he died naturally literally…i support azhar’s view..basically that would be my opinion..and it may not be de correct one…well said..condolences to the family of victim.. n GOD knows everything more than the MACC, PM and all malaysian.. no one can hide it from GOD..
He died btw 6am and 1.30pm (Kajang coucillor Tan ban Wah saw Teoh in the toilet at 6am).
The investigation notes of MACC with Teoh..What was obtained from Teoh. (Because of this Royal Commission of Inquiry is important to demonstrate independence)
All the telephone call and SMS history with person in contact with Teoh for the last 48 hours before he was found death is crucial. Content of message.
Interview with Ean Yong.
Interview Teoh’s fiancee.
Reason of Teoh resigning from Ean Yong
According to NST, the police have seized the CCTV of the buidling (there is no CCTV in MACC premise). This is critical !
Wee Choo Keong say will name the Selangor Exco involved in the underground activities at appropriate time. Has the police got the name of the Exco and the relevant evidence?
Teoh is a witness, not suspect. Usually witness is a very important people to the investigator (MACC). Unfortunately MACC face the negative perception from the public now and unless it has already established procedure, the public distrust is there, but who knows, MACC may have the proof but reserved them at the moment.
So let’s wait.
I believe if honesty really exist, all the above are not neccessary. The person or persons responsible know it, only thing people is not honest to tell the truth and dare to face the consequence now!
But i believe the persons who are responsible will surely face the consequence, maybe not immediately but surely someday.
Dr Rafick, Your take sounds logical and as scientific as you can be under the circumstances. As for waiting for the police investigation….I have my reservations. The police and so many of our civil institutions practice a corrupt, selective service. I can but hope against hope that Teoh Beng Hock’s death was not in vain.
Dear MH
Let us judge the police AFTER they complete their investigations
Dr, based on your past experience, is it really hard to get estimation time of death? Based on this time, we can establish the time line which i believed important in any patology case…
Is there any time of death given yet…or did I miss anything?
Dear tres
The time of death has not been established. If I was given the privileges to see the actual seen and speak to the pathologist, I probably can make a good guess-estimate on the time of death. The picture is not that clear. Even the red color of the blood is not clearly visible. This indicates that it must have been a few hours since he died. How many hours, the pathologist can tell..
Maybe Khalid should have called you!
There is a comment on Malaysia Today tt suggests that if he had died from the fall there wld hv been more blood, abt 4-5 pints, instead of the about 2 pints at the scene as the heart would still beat immediately after death. It also suggested if he did die from a “high fall” then there would be blood splatters like “sunflower(s)” as blood has “directional velocity”.
I am not a doctor but this explanation makes sense.
The comment in full below:
“We should not speculate on what the officials did to Teo. On the contrary, dead man DO tell tales. We have evidence right in front of us in the picture.. There is no blood splatter on Teo’s impact. The plunge was clearly post mortem…
Blood thickens after human body dies… If he was alive when he jumped the blood splatters would be painting the roof like red sunflower. Blood has directional velocity. There was none there.
Another thing, the heart does not stop immediately on fall of this nature, unless it is ripped off from the body or it has been punctured by the rib bones. A normal fall like that could easily allow the heart to pump out 4 to 5 pints of blood.. There was only evidence of 1~2 pints of blood in the crime scene.
From the blood pattern on the picture, it is possible that Teo died hours before he ‘jump’ off the building
They should check for premortem injuries too…
Evidence never lies… “
Hi Jed
Thank you for reading and your comments. You have just supported my theory that he could have died before the actual fall from height. Are the bricks, the weapon of choice?
The police have classified it as “sudden death”. Well, technically they are right, he died “suddenly”. Case closed.
Hi Kok
Indeed he had died suddenly..